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My turn!

Scott long time no speak, hows things?

What about my ARC Titan twin entry air box with the ARC paper filters?

How do they rate?

I think it looks the part and is certainly a lot quieter (no sucking and dumping sounds) but is it any good in comparision to the cone filters etc..?

..Ian
 

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Discussion Starter #62
Hi there Ian mate, things are well thanks.

Yes a very nice bit of kit that ARC box. ;)
Looks like its one of the only Air Induction System that has
been designed to address ALL of the problem of air induction.

Very nice, and with a paper filter, should be 2nd to NONE.
 

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WOW!

Now I didn't expect that kind of reply!..THX

So at least theres one thing on my car thats in good working order at the moment!

..IS
 

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HE HE HE!

Peter I think your right its been so long since I saw my car im not sure . I believe the cigarette lighter was in full working order to!:D

Not long to wait now!!!!:D :D
 

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Any suggestions as to what to replace the HKS filters(SPF) I've got already on my R33 that doesnt cost the earth. The Apexi kit is over £250 I think and a bit rich - can the filter pods be replaced with an alternative that fits?

Any suggestions welcome as I'm feelnig a bit poor at the moment as the car is at Abbey at the mo getting cam belt service, new cams, MOT and is within a few hundred miles of needing new tyres

Cheers


Iain
 

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wsurfa said:
Any suggestions as to what to replace the HKS filters(SPF) I've got already on my R33 that doesnt cost the earth. The Apexi kit is over £250 I think and a bit rich - can the filter pods be replaced with an alternative that fits?

Any suggestions welcome as I'm feelnig a bit poor at the moment as the car is at Abbey at the mo getting cam belt service, new cams, MOT and is within a few hundred miles of needing new tyres

Cheers


Iain
Why not just refit the stock airbox? In fact i think i have 2 spare ones. i have yet to see an aftermarket one that pulls cold air, filters correctly and is quiet like the stock one. Can't understand why people change them.
 

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Scott

Shame their isn't any comparisons on the Foam/Paper etc., re the dyno runs. That would be interesting.

Or is it about the safety aspects of particles getting through?

I honestly don't dispute your tech knowledge but am at a bit of a loss as to why the Japs would have designed these knowing the faults you have mentioned. I just find it hard to understand why when they produce such awesome mods that they would screw it all up on the filters which are such an inexpensive piece of kit really compared to other parts?

I await your reply :eek: .

glen
 

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Re: Check this then>>>>

Ian Sutton said:
Then Chris you haven't seen the ARC Titan twin entry air box then.

http://212.67.202.137/~joss/forum/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102&highlight=titan


...Ian
Dealers LIKE selling air filters. They look "racey" in bright colours, fool the gullible into thinking they have more power (usually they have less, but a LOT more noise, which can be deceiving), are easy to fit and give little comeback. A typical gimmick in other words. Lots of aftermarket stuff is total crap. Look at any serious racing series and see how they go to hell and back to feed cold filtered air to the engine. Then tell me why 2 foam mushrooms right by the red hot turbos are a better idea :)
 

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Dealers

I was on about the 'Tuning Companies' making these items Chris. The dealers only sell whats made available by them.

I believe the colouring of items is perhaps to catch someones eye but more like the standardised colour choice of a particular tuning company. HKS/Green, Trust/Blue, Blitz/Silver.

Perhaps the situation is relevant to the I/C theory as mentioned by Cem and Shin. By this I mean that ALL medium to high power RB26's (575-600+bhp) seem to run either open inlets or some kind of free flowing filter arrangement where the lesser powered road/track cars can get away with air boxy type things. Gawd knows.

I have just checked something out in Hyper Revs. 19 of the 22 tuners/builders/preppers, showing their cars, I have checked out all run either open or filtered turbos. So are these guys playing us then ?? I think not. The 3 with air boxes, 2 run Arc and the other is, dunno.

Also the filters are actually quite a way from the Turbos unlike the big bhp open Turbo cars where the air is pulled in even closer to the engine so making it even hotter I'd have thought. But then these are low mileage engines but all the same still require plenty of air so ????

The road based trackcars do seem to differ though slightly. I remember seeing the Top Secret car pulling air from a custom made air box and another one tuners car using filters. Didn't seem no different on the track either.

I give up. Their ain't no proof either way so I'm off to bed.

glen.

ps. Cant we just talk about fags and food like we used to :D .
 

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Surley with the mass of air the turbo / turbo's are sucking, the air wouldn't have much chance to be heated by the engine anyway. I read somewhere that a 'small' turbo when boosting, could suck all the air out of a average sized room, in a matter of seconds!. Also consider how much cold air is coming into the engine-bay when moving.

Jason.
 

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jrpidgeon said:
Surley with the mass of air the turbo / turbo's are sucking, the air wouldn't have much chance to be heated by the engine anyway. I read somewhere that a 'small' turbo when boosting, could suck all the air out of a average sized room, in a matter of seconds!. Also consider how much cold air is coming into the engine-bay when moving.

Jason.
The air coming into the bay is anything but cold! The majority of it has passed through the water rad core. The underside is effectively sealed off. Air comes in through the rad and I/C aperturtes, it temp is raised, and it exits through low pressure areas, such as the gearbox tunnel and the front wheel wells.

That's why Nissan went to great lengths mouling plastic ducts to pull cold air from IN FRONT OF the rad. Virtually every modern car now ducts cold air from an area of highish pressure and low temperature to feed the intake. Virtually evry aftermarket air filter that doesn't use the stock box negates allthis hard work, probably for cost reasons. I wasted hours and pounds rebuilding a 32K mile R33 GTR engine solely due to wear from poorly filtered air ingress. It was merely my intention to make others consider the negative sides of some aftermarket filters, the Skyline is an expensive engine to rebuild properly, and a PITA to remove and refit. Excess wear is not something people would want to knowingly create, surely :)

Similarly for adding to the intake temps, and believe me underbonnet filters DO add to charge air temps after the IC, I measured them accurately on the GTR when I owned it, and there was a marked increase in CAT with the aftermarket filters, even at track speeds, in comparison with the stock air box. No bull, her's the CAT gauge installed :)
 

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Chris

From what you say, surely it was not a good thing when you put the HKS filters in my car? Maybe I should have the stock box put back in?



Vincent
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Glen,

I believe the perceived performance increase, (from the noise), and the glitzy
under bonnet appearance is the main reason people buy them.

I have no idea why manufacturers of very high quality, well designed and engineered
automotive products do sell items that will reduce the life span of your vehicle.
Mind you, any mod that is increasing a cars output arguably will reduce an engines life.
I think this is part of the culture. Extra 100bhp & 20,000 miles off of the ultimate life of the
engine? So what I won't own it then.

Maybe these filters are only dyno tested. How many 100,000 mile durability vehicles
do HKS have??? :confused:

The bottom line is people are only interested in POWER, not engine life.
So the 5bhp gain will win every time. But when the engine does let go,
its normally put down to something else, not realising that is was avoidable.

Myself and Mark from Abbey are going to look into it next weekend. Goin to try to borrow
some measuring equipment and see if we can get some tempretures and understand the
thermol conditions in an engine bay.

I'll let you's all know.;)
 

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under bonnet temp/pod filters

In my time as a GT4 owner much talk centred round under bonnet temps, intake temps etc quite a big problem for the '4 as the heat generated in the cramped engine bay is v.high and the turbo loses efficiency quickly.

The best results for replacing the stock airbox was to have a straight intake pipe to a K&N type filter sited in a custom cold air box fed from the front of the car (see pic), I dont know whether something similar would work for the GTR.

Cheers Iain
 

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Drawn Air

Dear Chris.

Not sure that all the available air is drawn directly from the rad area. If this is so how does the standard airbox draw the correct amount of air from an ever so small gap under the bonnet? Also a lot of the tuners( Nismo, Jun, Blitz, HKS Kansai, Border, Electra, Autoselect etc.,) use big air ducts in their bonnets to draw away hot air that had passed through the rad and I/C.

Also have you measured the temp of the air as it passes through the Turbo/s. If this Turbo temp is any higher than ambient then the efforts of getting colder air in their are negated? Maybe this answers the point of increased CAT temps with filter kits. It don't matter as it gets so hot when it hits the turbos.

Guy spoke about this some time ago saying no matter how cold the air you put in its is goverened by the temp as it exits the Turbo/s and what the I/C can then do. What happens previous to these two points is immaterial.

I don't think engine bay heat exits through the wheel arch area and also wasn't the stock box used simply for restriction purposes? I only say this as the ARC and modified boxes used are somewhat far from standard really.

Scott.

Yeah Mark told me today you are going out testing a few things next week. I think you may be suprised by the results.

As for the engine wear. I'm keeping out of that one.

wsurfa.

Yeah mentioned this box on the post above re the Top Secret car. Will try and attach a pic.

Good thread.

See Ya's.

glen
 
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