GTR Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all electronics masterminds..

I have noticed an anomaly in the function of my R32 GT-R ATTESA ETS-system (perhaps due to poor electric connections).

According to workshop manual the ETS hydraulic pressure pump should activate when the "bleed connector" is opened and pump should run as long as this connector is open.
I have noticed that the pump will only run for a few seconds (if I first have sprayed water towards and around the ETS pump motor), and then stop during my attempts to bleed the hydraulic system.

The 4WD function is working (but sufficiently ??.. I do not know..) under this produced (wet) conditions.
I have tried to locate a possible poor connection in the circuit (cable) to the pressure switch on the ETS pump, but have so far not succeded..
My attempts is complicated by the fact that I do not know in what state this switch should be in (open circuit or closed, i.e. grounded) during this bleed-attempts (or under normal driving).
The fact that pump operates (in "short bursts") after beeing sprayed with water, gives some indications that a electric connection (albeit poor) is achieved for theese few seconds.
For every time I reconnect the bleed-connector and then opens this again I get an approx 2 second running of the pump motor..

Anyone out there who could explain the function of the ETS solenoid and this previously mentioned pressure switch in combination to me ?
What voltage levels should appear at the ETS (ATTESA) box connector and relays regarding the built-in solenoid under the different conditions. (i.e. normal running, bleeding etc..)

:confused:

I have worked through all the troubleshooting diagrams in the manual and checked the voltage levels on the related cables in the wiring harness, but as I dont know what the proper values are I can´t decide if I have a fault or not.. The diagnostic error codes does NOT indicate any problems whatsoever.. So the signal (voltage) levels are probably within limits.

Connecting the cable leading to the pressure switch under bleeding-attempts results in a continuous running of the pump.
Leaving this connected to ground undre attempts to run the car with bleed-connector in place gives an error indication (led flashes at appropriate number)

Help needed please... //Lars B.

You know.. I want 4WD to kick in even when driving on dry roads.. The water added dries quickly when in the overtaking lane.. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,041 Posts
Hi Lars

I guess you have the (Australian) workshop manual then ?
Have you checked the oil level in the tank (trunk rear right) ? And if so, what is the actual level?
During bleeding, the connector has to be open (connector is one wire, located on the front side of the right front door).
During normal operation it has to be closed (connected that is).

What error code(s) do you get inder which situations?

I don't have the workshop manual here with me right now. If you give me the information, I'll have a look tomorrow for you.

André.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,949 Posts
4wd problems

lars sorry to see you are having trouble
with the 4wd in my old R32 i sold you

hope you get to the bottom of it soon

keith
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Hi everybody, Thanks for your sympathy and efforts.. :)

I know that the hydraulic fluid level is important, and have checked this. Everything has been thoroughly checked regarding the comprising components.. Transfer Box, actuators, relays and hydraulic lines.
Workshop manual: Aussie version .. yes

Error codes: NONE.. when all connectors attached, i.e. Normal.
Otherwise various codes that correctly indicate the fault deliberately induced by me.. (by disconnecting cables etc..)
(Sorry, have no manual available for reference here at work... Sssh.. Don´t tell my boss.. )

It is the function of the ETS solenoid and this previously mentioned pressure switch in combination I need, along with the proper voltage levels at the ETS (ATTESA) box connector (at related pins) during "normal" and "bleed" operation. Having this information I will get a better understanding of the ATTESA system function diagrams.

Also perhaps a functional explanation regarding the built-in solenoid under the different conditions. (i.e. normal running, bleeding etc..)

The "almost correct" function after water "beeing added" makes me suspect that there is a poor (or missing) electric connection regarding the pressure switch or the solenoid.
As you know, water is a poor electric conductor, although BETTER than no connection at all .. the contact therefore becomes sufficient for a few seconds (current flows through the "wet spot")..

Problem is similar to when you get moist or water in electric connectors of any vehicle.. current is then starting to flow along the path witch offers the least resistance.. e.g. directly to ground instead of to the filament of a bulb, and "darkness" is spread onto the road
;)
My sprayed water perhaps gives the current/voltage an "easier" way to reach the destination with a proper value.
As of now the (suspected) poor conductivity of water is only sufficient to give me these 2-3 seconds of "bleed-function".

So, If you have knowledge of in what state the pressure-switch normally is in this would help. I.e. does the switch close (grounding the circuit) when sufficient pressure is reached, or does it open (keeping voltage level high) at ETS unit connector pin. (..this applies to normal driving)

During bleeding this pressure switch seems to have no influence on the pumps deactivation as I understand, or else pump would stop as soon as max pressure level is reached.. (contrary to what manual says about pump during hydraulic bleeding)
Function diagrams of the solenoid and activation/deactivation parameters for this would help.

Thanks in advance André and others..:D
//Lars B.

P.S. Keith, I love my GTR.. Just waiting for the snow to melt away..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,949 Posts
photos

lars can you send me some photos of your car
if you have any up to date ones

thanks keith
 
U

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Hello, lars....

I am wanting to bleed the old fluids out of the rear steering and have noticed that the system does run for a few seconds at start up. I have also noticed the dash lights "4wd" and the yellow LED within the tachometer area. Do these lights only illuminate when there is a problem with the systems, or will they also activate when system is being used. For I have never seen either of these lit, except at startup. I have changed most of the fluids in the car, except the small rear canister on the right side of the trunk-can't remember what it is you folks call it- would like to know how to activate system when bleeding it. I can't seem to find anyone who has english version of the r33 tech manual, so maybe you can give me some help or anyone else for that matter. Oh, and keith I'd send some pics, but the only things I've changed on the car have been the fluids, the stereo (nice Sony minidisc player/recorder, 10"subwoofer-that I have to remove everytime I go to the track, 10 disc CD changer, 550 watt infinite amp, 4- 6" mids, 4 tweeters) , put VG30 Mass airflow sensors, and a Laser jamming system from sweden called Blinder. Boy, does that baffle the cops when they are trying to use there laser speed guns on my car. I see them pull the gun away from their eye and start messing with the side of it, even had one smack it thinking it was broken...haha.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Dash lights..

Hello all,

As I´m only familiar with the R32 error signals I am unsure of what the yellow LED indicates.

Also I thought that the HICAS-steering was using electrical motors on these newer models (I can be completely wrong).. Anyway later models ZX300TT:s use electric motors as I have heard.

Perhaps you have bled out some of the ATESSSA ETS hydraulic fluid instead.. since you get 4WD warnings.. (Low fluid level can be the probable cause of that (Check the canister in the trunk right side whitch is for the torque transfer hydraulics).
The way to bleed the ETS-system you need to find the small connector in the right side footwell (where most electic cables form engine compartment meet the main harness) and disconnect it (separate the male and female connector). It is only this one tiny cable that controls the bleed-functions. Once opened and ignition is turned on, the hydraulic pump shall run continously. Then open the bleed valve on the transfer-box hydraulic actuator in short intervals until there are no air-bubbles in the fluid.

Good luck with your bleeding (of car )
;)
Lars
 
U

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
L-
I don't know how tired I was last night, but I was talking about the ATTESA system, not the HICAS, sorry. Can't bleed the "electricty" out of the system now can you? Thanks for the heads up on the how to for the ATTESA, I will be doing that my next day off. Just any Brake fluid will do, or does it have some special properties?
Also, Do you know how to activate the HICAS to see if it is working, also? Any way of testing the system?
H.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Do not put Brake fluid in ETS-system !!

Hello H.
I do not think that Brake fluid would be such a good idea to put in the ETS hydraulics system..
Hydraulics are for use with NISSAN Power Steering fluid (or similar).

Regarding the steering system:

This link might be of use (although it is for ZX300:s)
http://www.300zx.co.uk/cgi-bin/manual.cgi
Look in the section for Steering system at pages 75 and onwards.. That describe the activation of self diagnosis for the HICAS.

If I find something very different than the above link describes in my manual I will inform you a.s.a.p.

Hope this helps.
Lars
 
U

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Sorry, I ment ATF, I'm kinda out of it, when I get around to writting to this site, it's usually pretty late. I am flushing it tomorrow, any way of engaging the pump for the ATTESSA system to help with flushing old fluid? Or activating the "bleed" mode for the system that you refered to?
I will be trying to activate the self diagnostic mode with the 300 zx engagment procedure.
H.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
ATF will do :)

Hi H.
Engaging the bleed function with valve opened will drain your system quick. So I suppose that is a way of doing it. But make sure that you have a proper collecor for the drained oil.. We dont want to spray the driveway/garage floor and the whole car underneath with this.. do we ;-) Fluid is under HIGH pressure when pump is running.
Hydraulics oil change and bleeding can be a little tricky.. You MUST make sure that the fluid level in canister is sufficient all the time during bleeding, or air will enter the system again. :-(

Note : There is also bleed valves on the pump motor itself.. Opening this will drain the canister by means of gravity (unless you already drained all by bleeding). Refilling the system you should use this valve to get oil to the pump.. before normal bleeding.

// Lars
 
U

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Could this be accomplished much like powersteering flush: Remove return line to reserve canister and place in a plastic milk container, run pump for 3 to 4 seconds, enough to empty system. Replace return line back on reserve canister, fill reserve canister with ATF, run pump to fill system, top off canister with ATF. You still have not told me how to set pump to run while car is sitting still, though. Sorry, no book.
H.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Pump activation Ignition on, connector open

US_98_Vspec_R33 said:
Could this be accomplished much like powersteering flush: Remove return line to reserve canister and place in a plastic milk container, run pump for 3 to 4 seconds, enough to empty system. Replace return line back on reserve canister, fill reserve canister with ATF, run pump to fill system, top off canister with ATF. You still have not told me how to set pump to run while car is sitting still, though. Sorry, no book.
H.
Hello H.
Sorry for my bad explaining..
Draining is no problem i think.. Use of pump may well be OK Emptying through the bleed valves.. Not disconnecting anything else (like return hoses). (According to manual)

As you would need to open electric bleed-connector (cable in right footwell) to run the pump I thought I had mentioned that ignition must be on (engine OFF) otherwise no current in the electical cirquits. Sorry..

Refilling system I would recommend that you fill canister and then first open the bleed-valve adjacent to the pump-motor.. It is a Pump for pressurizing, not suction.. When no more air is visible, close bleed valve and start bleeding pressurized side of system. (Pump active and short openings of valve at tranfer box until air is gone.)

Perhaps the oil will eventually find its way to the pump from canister even if the (suction side) bleed valve is closed, but to do it the "proper way" I recommend doing according to manuals.

//Lars
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
hey guys, im newbie here. any problem you might encounter if you dont bleed it right away? what later problems would occur? coz my dad had just acquired an R32 GTR, and i think it has the same problem. and he is kindda being stubborn and still drives it once in a while even with the 4WD indicator on...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I don´t think there will be other resulting problems than a missing 4WD-function if there is air in system. (I can be wrong).
I fixed all my problems with the 4WD by replacing the ETS-pump. There was a sticking pressure switch causing my problems. As the normal state of the switch is to indicate sufficient pressure the self diagnosing program could not give any fault display, although there was no 4WD whatsoever. Switch indicated full hydraulic pressure although it was zero (0), i.e. pump not running to produce any pressure - not torque transferred to front axle. Torque meter needle in instrument cluster was moving showing a supposed (calculated) torque-transfer based on input from the sensors involved.

If you get an error indication the problem is not identical to mine. When the 4WD light is lit you can look at the ETS-computer led (in luggage compartment) and count the number of flashes that indicates what error code to look for in the service manual.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I don´t think there will be other resulting problems than a missing 4WD-function if there is air in system. (I can be wrong).
I fixed all my problems with the 4WD by replacing the ETS-pump. There was a sticking pressure switch causing my problems. As the normal state of the switch is to indicate sufficient pressure the self diagnosing program could not give any fault display, although there was no 4WD whatsoever. Switch indicated full hydraulic pressure although it was zero (0), i.e. pump not running to produce any pressure - not torque transferred to front axle. Torque meter needle in instrument cluster was moving showing a supposed (calculated) torque-transfer based on input from the sensors involved.

If you get an error indication the problem is not identical to mine. When the 4WD light is lit you can look at the ETS-computer led (in luggage compartment) and count the number of flashes that indicates what error code to look for in the service manual.[/QUOTE/]

hey bobban. thanks! l checked the ETS - computer.. it showed 18 - pressure switch or circuit. i noticed too that the front torque needle in the instrument cluster does not move up when im driving it.. so are these the same problems as yours before? what do we have to do then? its kindda hard to get replacement pump here..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
kaloiMD said:
hey bobban. thanks! l checked the ETS - computer.. it showed 18 - pressure switch or circuit. i noticed too that the front torque needle in the instrument cluster does not move up when im driving it.. so are these the same problems as yours before? what do we have to do then? its kindda hard to get replacement pump here..
Hi, My problems did NOT give any error codes whatsoever (and ets-needle moving). So I beleive that your problems are somewhat different (but likewise grounding problems). Unless there is some broken/loose ground wire possibly your pressure switch is sticking in the wrong state (thus not allowing current in the ETS pump circuit). Hopefully there is just a loose ground wire.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top