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Discussion Starter #1
I've read with interest all the posts on octane boosters and the guy who is a chemist testing their actual octane increase, amazing. However, my question is this, I have found somewhere selling aviation fuel 120octane, can I store this in my garage, is it illegal to do so, and can i just put it straight in the tank. I have a 2litre on throttle bodies with a knock sensor, it responds well to optimax though I'm sure it would benefit from higher octane fuel.

Sorry if I'm starting an identical thread I don't mean to.
 

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I *think* that high octane fuel cannot be stored for very long as it degrades very quickly,so if you kept it in your shed i think you would have to use it quickly, but i am sure someone will else will know more than me:D
Maybe a bit of a fire risk though.............
 

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TYpe??

One thing you HAVE to consider with aviation fuel is that although the fuel is blue in colour in comes in 2 types!! Leaded or Unleaded with the latter required for the Skylines, as the leaded verion actually wrecks your sensors in the zorst!!

Stu
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't actually run a skyline, I run a 1990 Golf GTI with a VW motorsport engine (I know I'll get my coat). I believe it will run on both leaded and unleaded though, so that's not an issue.
Probably more trouble than it's worth. I just need to get my quarter mile times down to low 13seconds. I await the octane booster result with interest.

V.tempted to buy a skyline as a second car, nearly bought a scooby but just can't force myself to buy japanese. The engine's are amazing!! BUT they are all soooo ugly (sorry guys).
 

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aviation fuel isnt good for cars in many ways ,
just stick to optimax
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thought it was dicing with death, but hey it was worth a try. Assume some of the people in this club will be at the 200plus road car shoot out at the half mile strip. Good luck.
 

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Thought you got away with the ugly comment quite well. I prefer power per £ rather than looks so I am happy. Skylines aint no ferrari but cost less:)
Anyway, the golf is no supermodel:)
 

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david_h

Each to their own mate and ballsy of you to come on and say that.

Don't do it too often though will you or your postings(or the replies) willl be my first moderations :D ;) .

See Ya.

glen
 

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Discussion Starter #9
No problems.

BTW bought that Banzai magazine for the first time the other day, to get an idea of what sort of 1/4mile times you guys post. Some are incredible but others not so great. Some of them are in the 14second category is this due to the weight of the car?

Just wondered what the weight of a standard skyline is out of interest.

BTW I have to say I'm sorley tempted to buy that white one with the gold wheels that's up for sale for about £24k. Now that looks really nice.

You're right Golf's are not nice looking in standard form, and the aerodynamics are brick wall like. However, it's possible to make them look ok without adding 1000kg of fibreglass and making it look like something out of max power. Not my style at all, and it's a shame so many japanese cars are made to look like this.
However, I've seen a couple of scooby's that have been very subtle in their styling and I take my hat off to them, looks so good.
 

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The cars that were running slower were either GTR's bedding in parts (Alan's Clutch, or not GTR's which have less power but are still scooby killers !!)

I think an unmodded GTR will pull low 13's. but it depends on the launch technique..

My lightly breathed on example made 12.7 on the uphill part of the runway.

As for ugly...no comment there. I like a car that says "you are in ****ing trouble now" not "ooh look at me I'm pretty".

It snarls at you like a beast !! (which is what it is)

running avgas will probably cook your valves. if not it will clog it all up with sh1t.

have fun.

Steve
 

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That white one with the shiney gold wheels, makes a nice run down the quarter in less than 12secs.

I thought that recent advert with all the Golfs in was typical of the brand, especially liked the one with the tears ;)

Have you considered the health risks of Aviation fuel, best just stick some Toluene or Methanol in the tank.
 

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Actually, avaition fuel is nothing else but regular fuel with a higher octane level. There are a lot more safety regulations in dealing with this kind of fuel compared to standard car gas such as filters in tanks and pumps etc.

I've run a couple of engines on it without any problems, but never a Skyline type engine with massive boost. I don't see how this could cause any problems if mapped correctly to the fuel but, there's always a risk with trying things for the 1st time.

Maybe someone has a link or something to where some one has tried this more thouroughly?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Interesting.

I'm sure they must run race cars with it no? Or at least certain types of them.
I'd be interested in hearing anyone who has used the fuel before. Surely with upgraded engine internals the correct mapping would enable you to use the fuel quite safely.

As for handling it, that's a whole different matter and wouldn't know anything about that.
 

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Well, you would handle it the same way as you handle regular petrol, with care of course :)

Another advantage, at least here in Sweden, is that aviation fuel is still tax free. The only country where it still is I think? Less than half the price than at the gas station.
 

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Basse said:
Actually, avaition fuel is nothing else but regular fuel with a higher octane level.
It most certainly is NOT!

These guys here are running very expensive machinery and statements like that really are stupid.

I'll not post in this thread further.
 

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Are aviation gasoline octane numbers comparable?

Copied from some notes - below.

Make sure it is unleaded as it will foul your Lambda sensor and remember higher octane = less power unless your engine can be adjusted to take advantage of, or needs the slower burning high octane fuel.

Aviation gasolines were all highly leaded and graded using two numbers, with common grades being 80/87, 100/130, and 115/145 [109,110]. The first number is the Aviation rating ( aka Lean Mixture rating ), and the second number is the Supercharge rating ( aka Rich Mixture rating ). In the 1970s a new grade, 100LL ( low lead = 0.53mlTEL/L instead of 1.06mlTEL/L) was introduced to replace the 80/87 and 100/130. Soon after the introduction, there was a spate of plug fouling, and high cylinder head temperatures resulting in cracked cylinder heads [110]. The old 80/87 grade was reintroduced on a limited scale. The aviation Rating is determined using the automotive Motor Octane test procedure, and then converted to an Aviation Number using a table in the method. Aviation Numbers below 100 are Octane numbers, while numbers above 100 are Performance numbers. There is usually only 1 - 2 Octane units different to the Motor value up to 100, but Performance numbers varies significantly above that eg 110 MON = 128 Performance number.

The second Avgas number is the Rich Mixture method performance Number ( PN - they are not commonly called octane numbers when they are above 100 ), and is determined on a supercharged version of the CFR engine which has a fixed compression ratio. The method determines the dependence of he highest permissible power ( in terms of indicated mean ffective pressure ) on mixture strength and boost for a specific light knocking setting. The Performance Number indicates the maximum knock-free power obtainable from a fuel compared to iso-octane = 100. Thus, a PN = 150 indicates that an engine designed to utilise the fuel can obtain 150% of the knock-limited ower of iso-octane at the same mixture ratio. This is an arbitrary scale based on iso-octane + varying amounts of TEL, derived from a survey of engines performed decades ago. Aviation gasoline PNs are rated using variations of mixture strength to obtain the maximum knock-limited power in a supercharged engine. This can be extended to provide mixture response curves which define the maximum boost ( rich - about 11:1 stoichiometry ) and minimum boost ( weak about 16:1 stoichiometry ) before knock [110].

The 115/145 grade is being phased out, but even the 100LL has more octane than any automotive gasoline.
 

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Mycroft said:


It most certainly is NOT!

These guys here are running very expensive machinery and statements like that really are stupid.

I'll not post in this thread further.
And what kind of cheap, low-grade machinery do you think they use in supercharged airplane engines 10,000 feet above the ground?

Like I said earlier, I have never tried it on a supercharged car engine like the Skyline's, but I don't see why it couldn't be made to take advantage of it's higher octane level if mapped correctly.

I stand by my opinion on this matter. At least I have used it without ay problems.

Maybe if you would come up with some hard evidence on why it should never be used in a car I would change my point of view ;)
 

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aircraft engines are completly low stress they may be super charged but the power it produces is small for its size, for exsample a 5.7 lt n/a engine only produce around 120 hp on ground as it rises the power drops

also the super chargers on planes only cram as much air as the engine needs to mantane its rated power (ground power)
unless its ground boosted were its power falls as the plane rises

the fact its 10.000 foot up means low density air alot less power
its all about burn rate of fuel aviation fuel burns with less intensity (heat)than car fuel with car fuel in planes there was lots of overheating.
you can map cars to aviation fuel but there no point as theres no gain as far as i know,
car fuel can be used in planes (4 star) at your own risk as CAA
say it distroys all the seals on the engine and fuel lines,
so iam not sure if it works vise versa

alcohol is better that fuel for power but youl need
a fuel system three times as big coz it burns fuel at a ratio of about 5;1 but its got less power to the fuel but you putting more in so a 20 % ish increse is gonna be avalable!
so you put
 

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GU5I 80Y said:
you can map cars to aviation fuel but there no point as theres no gain as far as i know,
car fuel can be used in planes (4 star) at your own risk as CAA
say it distroys all the seals on the engine and fuel lines,
so iam not sure if it works vise versa
The gain would be that the aviation fuel (AVGAS) allows for higher compression before it self-ignites due to it's higher octane level. Higher pressure = more power.

The main reason why avaiation fuel is separated from regular car fuel is that regular car gasoline would start creating air bubbles in the fuel lines at a certain level of altitude due to the lower atmospheric pressure. A chemical process which I can't describe any further. There are many other reasons as well, one of the biggest being economical reasons.
 

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So airplanes can get the bends !! excellent.

This is the process of gases expanding as pressure reduces until you get fizzy liquid in effect. This is exactly the same as a diver getting Bent.

The extra Nitrogen in the blood being produced under pressure will expand until you actually get bubbles on a fast ascent. These bubbles will then accumulate in the joints, or if you are really unfortunate the brain causing similar symptoms to a stroke (if you live long enough to diagnose it).

I am sticking with the valves getting clagged up theory if you run avgas. It is something to do with the lead lubricants they put in it accumulating on the valves. If you were to prepare the engine properly you may get away with it but you'd be better off just tuning the car better to run on petrol that it is legal to use...

have fun.
Steve
 
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