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Discussion Starter #1
Did any of you see Clarkson-Apoclypse on UK horizons over crimbo? Its one of his 1 hour shows on performance cars. It started of with 10 cars (I think) and they were looking for the best of the best. They did a timed run with all the cars. One of which was a standard R33 GTR V.Spec. :) It beat the Ferrari 550 by 1/2 second, the F355 by 3 secs ish, and also beat a 911 carrera, mitsubishi 3000gt, lotus elise (obviously) and a few others.Not bad for a standard skyline me thinks.

The annoying this is that it was kicked out of the runnings for being the best drivers car beause it does too much of the work for you. Do any of you agree with this statement?

Merry Christmas all.

Rob
 

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Thats the problem with TV people. THey all think that the normal 'fast' car owning person can drive like a professional driver!

Look at Tiff Needell. He always rates the Porsche 911/993/996 as the best car in ALL group tests but then you look at the outtakes and he's spinning it into the gravel in nearly every corner!

Be glad we have Skylines. We don't use a Track to drive on for 99% of the time so if the car helps out and you avoid a truck or some railings, think of the Porsche/TVR owner who wouldn't even dare to go round a bend that fast unless they were an off-duty Racecar driver!

I'm not anti-Porsche or anything Tiff if you're reading (yeah right) but most due to the 'average Porsche owner creed' :....

You more than often PASS-BYE a Porsche than GET-PASSED by one!

Enjoy Tail-Outs my man!!!
 

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If you watch the programme carefully, I think you'll find that Clarkson was amazed that the R33 was voted out so quickly - the guy's who wanted it out were the other two (Richard Burns and Tim Harvey, I think).

In my opinion, anyone who starts to compare 911 handling to GT-R handling is somewhat missing the point of Porsche ownership.

Talat.
 

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Porsche ownership?

Talat,

It was getting interesting - can you elaborate on your last statement?

I drive my Porsche 996 C2 (RWD) everyday and I find the handling so 'GT biased' that it is not as confidence inspiring when pushed to the same speeds as the UK R34 that I drive occasionally.

I'm now thinking of selling the 996 as I am a little 'disappointed' with it, even though it has all the heritage of the Porsche 911 marque, if that's one of the points of Porsche ownership!

It's a great package with the gadgets, sat nav, tiptronic, PSM (like active-yaw), sumptious leather, solid feel but it doesn't have the excitment factor that the R34 always provides.

Hmm, I AM trying to like it but I don't need prompting to love the R34!

over to you Talat!

Richard. :confused:
 

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Richard,

Hmm, this is a little to difficult to explain but I'll try my best.

At the end of the day, I'm a 'car' lover. I love all types of cars regardless of where they originate from (when I say all, I mean to say anything RWD or 4WD). It's just that on certain bulletin boards you get certain people who can't see the wood from the trees and I made the aforementioned statement in the hope that the UK BBS doesn't go down the same route as certain others i.e. people slagging off all and sundry in favour of anything Nissan. Don't get me wrong, I love GT-R's but I also love Porsches. I just think that it's unfair to compare the two.

From a personal point of view, the 911 has always had a aura about it. The challenge is to master (if that is at all possible) the rather wayward handling. I've never driven a 996 but I have driven a 930 and a 964 and for me (maybe 'cos I'm a crap driver) I wasn't able to go out and drive it quickly straight away but I was instantly smitten. I also love the noise of the air-cooled flat six, the looks and the fact that I won't lose much money when it comes to resale etc. I own a R32 GT-R at present (and used to own a R33 GTS-t) but my next car will be either an R34 GT-R, a 964 Turbo 2, a 993 Carrera 2 or a Honda NSX. Sure if I decide to buy either the 993 or NSX it's not going to have the same straight line speed or handling of the GT-R but I honestly couldn't care less - I live in London where power and handling doesn't really matter when you're stuck in traffic. If I want to drive quickly then I'll take it to the track and if I spin off on a corner which a GT-R would easily tackle then I don't care 'cos I'm not racing anyone except myself.

I'm beginning to waffle on here and I'm losing sight of what I'm trying to get across so I'll cut this short. But I hope my point has come across successfully. At the end of the day, if you don't like your 996 then sell it - there are plenty of people out there who would fall instantly in love with it.

Talat.
 

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Porsche v GT-R

Talat and other posters,

SOrry that I may have sounded anti-Porsche but that was not what I intended at all.

I have owned a 968 Club Sport whilst living in America and it was a great car. I also drove my friends 911 Carrera Rs (a little old but still nice) and liked them both.

I just wanted to get the point across that driving an GT-R is Soooo much more fun because you don't feel like your fighting with your bravado when going hard.

THe press always will love Porsches because, at mentioned by yourself, it has a heritage, solid build, nice ride, racing breed etc etc. (DOn't think depreciation comes into the argument really because I buy cars that I love and thats the the final purchase thought.)

Hope no one is upset and every one is different or whe'd all be driving the same cars right?

So..... THat's why I was dissappointed that it was knocked off the final list in the Clarkson program this thread started with.

Take care all and Happy New Year!!!!


Jim
 

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Yeah Jim, I hear what you're saying. I too was cheesed off when they voted off the R33 but I think that the whole episode degenerated into a farce when it turned out that the Peugeot 106 was placed quite highly.:D

Talat.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Jumping back to what I was previously saying, shouldnt the mitsubishi 3000gt keep up with the skyline? It was quite a few seconds slower round the track which I found suprising beings as it has the same power/4wd and similar weight. It the skylines 4WS and HICAS etc really that much more advanced?

Rob
 

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GTR v GTO etc

Vennuth,

If you get the chance to watch any of the Japanese video series `Best Motoring` they almost invariably have a race off between such cars as RX-7, EVO 6/7, Imprezza, NSX and GT-R and a few others, occasionally imports.
In these races, where some of the cars have vastly better power to weight ratios than the GTR, it can still compete and win sometimes.
Why it is important to actually see the videos is because it becomes obvious that the GTR is much faster through bends than it should be physically capable of. I guess that comes down to the GTRs 4wd system is that much better than everything else.
 

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This Porsche debate is very interesting, somtimes the view point depends on the budget.

For me Porsche's are way over priced, especially if you compare to left hand drive models, one reason is availability of RHD cars.

However, my budget is about 10 - 12k, with that I can get a standard GT-R r32 (seen a few lately) or and STI 111 / EVO IV, quicker and better handling than a Porsche anytime.

This is my perspective because of my budgetaty restraints, however if I had 40K to spend then the 911/993/996 would definatly be on my shopping list! and Tiff Needles road tests prove them to be great cars.

Lee.

Needles was intentional.:D
 

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I think the part of that program you saw is taken off of one of Clarksons videos which came out a few years ago.
I've got the video and you're right about the professional drivers voting the car out early and Clarkson being dissapointed.

There is, however a great on-board shot of Tim Harvey in the skyline looking gobsmacked and saying that as a point to point car "this is the quickest thing I've ever driven" :smokin:

I think that shot alone and the fact the R33 was quicker than all the 'Supercars' around the track is what the skyline is all about - it is also one of the main reasons I bought one :D :D
 
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