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More great news from the Thistle, GTC Cobb camp

Thistle post from nagtroc:

"This is by no means an official statement on anything being released as it needs more testing, but in amongst the ice I tested for the first time this morning a further development to the boost control, and it is exciting to share the news.

The previous development of what has been called proportional or RPM based boost control gave a very sensitive throttle with the way most people were mapping it, and the part throttle torque especially in low gears can just be too much for some driver's abilities or preferences, or some surface conditions. I actually quite like it as it was for the dry, and it is OK in the snow/ice driven off boost in snow mode, in the wet part throttle boost was rather a lot to handle and you'd think seriously about turning VDC off.

So I have added a new table that looks up the gear and the throttle to give two more dimensions to the control. It restores some linearity to the throttle, but keeps things just as they were at full throttle. It can be mapped to suit preference, surface conditions or needs, and it can be set differently for every forward gear.

This means you can have more or less boost in the lower gears, and more or less response to throttle position for each of those gears. It drives nicely.

On my car (standard apart from map) I think I will have it so it gives the same boost in all gears, but only gives full boost on full throttle.

Some will want less boost in lower gears, especially for wet/winter use.

Any questions welcome apart from "When can I get it?" because as usual the Cobb team work very hard to test and add new features to this product.

I can say that it is the sort of extension that could be added to an existing RPM based map without extensive setup.

Those with existing RPM based custom maps or on the new v2.00, give your feedback on what you think of the part throttle and boost response in each gear already. Cobb Surgeline put up a previous plot that showed very similar boost in all gears, but just slightly less in 2nd than say 5th or 6th. 1st is usually limited by engine load and time, and even with 100% duty cycle won't often reach teh same boost as other gears.



More driving impressions... we finally started to thaw today, and whilst I cannot get full traction in 3rd gear, the part throttle is really silky smooth, and full boost in 4th,5th,6th is behaving as it should. I can pick a boost level I want to see and dial it up and hold it there with my right foot using the throttle, half throttle gives about 8 PSI whereas before it was double that. From the feel of 3rd gear my multipliers for the lower gears may be excessive, I think this will end up having more boost in 2nd than 6th, which is hilarious even if not very mature ;) I think this could see the straight line acceleration times improve a fair bit due to appropriate boost and traction in combination, and circuit use will be night and day improved I think for control in turns. The deliberate showboating power oversteerers/drifter types may find that it takes more of a boot full of throttle to unsettle the car now, but it can be mapped to preference"


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A number of different road / track / drag applications will really benefit from being able to control the power with their right foot and should mean faster lap times, better control in cornering. gear dependant boost control should seriously help with traction issues in the lower gears especially in wet, decreased tire wear from constantly spinning tires.


GTC now has the JDM, EDM, USDM beta gear and throttle wastegate patch maps and tables in accesstuner pro. No one outside of Cobb Tuning USA has these :)

AFR now has correct scaling also great work from John Banks, Joe and Trey.

After further testing on our own cars (Mine and Johns) we'll be releasing updates (to those who want it) to our loyal supporters who chose GTC for custom tune. Just a case of getting now user prefers his or her boost dialed in.

being able to switch maps via the AccessPORT has now never been so handy...motorway cruising, drag, track, street


With the other ecu updates weeks maybe days away and tcm, so excited about 2010
 

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That's great news Ben... I know I'm going to want the throttle control in 1st and 2nd cos right now I'm losing traction there with this very cold weather in Tokyo.

You guys put the tuners here to shame...
 

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As ever Ben, you guys lead the way.

Glad my GTR is GTC powered..... :)
 

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good stuff...looking forward to getting my custom map done when the temps go up a bit.
I'm on the same band wagon mate!!! A nice custom map for the spring will do just nicely!!

GTC.............:bowdown1:

Trav
 

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OMG......Me ??? give up Max power to a program??? :runaway::runaway: I like it at the max ALL the Time and need to LEARN how to use human power on the right foot:runaway::runaway: Ben/John you are stars :bowdown1::bowdown1: i look forward to MAX power in 2010:chuckle::chuckle: BUT...a little less wheel spin in the DRY in 1st and 2nd might help...what you think?:cool:
 

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i am officially now blown away by what you are doing Ben.

A feature that I would really like to see is reduced boost until the clutch locks up on launch and each gear change. This would take a significant load off the clutches, especially in tuned cars, with more horse power than they were designed for. What do you think?
 

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Ben,
firmware fixed pop up light....loaded latest tunes and am heading out for a SPIN in the rain:chuckle::chuckle: I will be monitoring knock and give you an update on how it feels. wonder if you can control boost for gear changes can we reduce boost at high load points like flat shifting and therfore run more timing .....MORE POWER:flame::flame::flame:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
nice work John

datalogs will be similar, as ive transfered your previous map data into the new gear logic :)

you might find first test map a little tame, but that can be sorted to want you like :flame:
 

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Well I loaded up my new map courtesy of Ben, and of course Thistle's hard work.

The best word to describe the updated boost settings is...

driveability

The roads around me are damp at the moment and at part throttle the GTR now barely loses grip. It feels much more relaxed when pootling around, and then of course the beast awakens if you plant your foot.

I'd happily call this map "Winter driving" as it sorts out the issue of losing traction when for instance overtaking at an easy pace.

I'm impressed having the option to load up the nutter map with wastgate/RPM mapping when at the track, or when it dries out, is fantastic.


Another step forward from the GTC/COBB/Thistle team.


I wonder what will come next.... :)
 

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Well I loaded up my new map courtesy of Ben, and of course Thistle's hard work.

The best word to describe the updated boost settings is...

driveability

The roads around me are damp at the moment and at part throttle the GTR now barely loses grip. It feels much more relaxed when pootling around, and then of course the beast awakens if you plant your foot.

I'd happily call this map "Winter driving" as it sorts out the issue of losing traction when for instance overtaking at an easy pace.

I'm impressed having the option to load up the nutter map with wastgate/RPM mapping when at the track, or when it dries out, is fantastic.


Another step forward from the GTC/COBB/Thistle team.


I wonder what will come next.... :)
Did you get one or two new maps to try out? I got two, but not sure what the differences are?

Funnily enough I believe the purpose of these maps is to improve traction when coming out of corners on a track. For the road, who cares if there's a bit of wheelspin, it makes it more fun and makes it "feel" more powerful!
 

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Did you get one or two new maps to try out? I got two, but not sure what the differences are?

Funnily enough I believe the purpose of these maps is to improve traction when coming out of corners on a track. For the road, who cares if there's a bit of wheelspin, it makes it more fun and makes it "feel" more powerful!
Just one map thus far David.

When we go to Anglesey in Feb I'll try out both and see how each fares on the track. Unfortunately without any timing stuff, I wont know whether the new maps slow you down over the lap.

At the moment though, I'm seriously liking the driveability of this new map I have. Given the slippy nature of the tarmac around me at the moment, it's a very welcome addition to my AP library.

:)
 

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My guess is you have to adapt your driving to make use of the map, e.g. where half throttle was enough before, you might need 3/4 or full throttle to get the same boost/power.

It will become increasingly valuable as big power cars come online.
 

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Great news. At the current conditions this will be very good to have. Looking forward trying a not too tame version ;)

GTC really leads the way again. Anybody who owes a GTR + Cobb AP really doesn't do just to his car and AP without having the GC guys doing you a custom RPM based map!
 

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Well i'm back from the shops:rolleyes: and have tried out the latest tunes on the ipod.

for once i will not try to discribe in a wishy washy way but do it blow by blow how the tunes went down.

First you have to understand there is about 3" of rain in sunny Aberdeen today and we dont have standing water we have rivers flowing down the dual carraigeway:runaway:

1. The beast still lets loose in 1st gear no matter how gentle i am with the go fast peddle and soon you find you are submerged in a black hole.
2. 2nd much easier to feed in the power without the central nervous system of the TARDIS taking control and IMHO much faster than warp 3 when usually only warp 1 is available in the wet.
3. 3rd gear is the bee's knees with the time shift set to 50% it held fast to the time continuem but any more and we would slip into an alternative universe.
4. 4th , 5th, 6th did no notice any slipage towards the end of time and the universe and all felt stable.

To sum up i think that i can warp from Aberdeen to Dundee 3 lights years quicker in the current conditions with these tunes. BUT!!! WTF would i want to go to Dundee for:chuckle:
 

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I'm glad people appreciate the subtlety, it is a more mature power delivery, and in 6th gear on full throttle you get exactly the same boost as before. In all the other gears the aim is to get the same peak boost as in 6th, so a little more than before - IF you are at full throttle. 1st won't do it due to time and load etc, a mechanical limitation.

This takes away the compromises, there is more velvet at part throttle, the iron fist is stronger than ever in the lower gears, I tried 2nd gear on full throttle and it just goes ridiculously sideways on a straight bit of road, but I now see the same full throttle peak in 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th now whereas before there was a small difference as you can see in the graph Ben posted from the previous version of boost control.

A feature that I would really like to see is reduced boost until the clutch locks up on launch and each gear change. This would take a significant load off the clutches, especially in tuned cars, with more horse power than they were designed for. What do you think?
There is no time to reduce boost on gearchanges, they are so quick that the only way to reduce engine torque is to retard the ignition timing which happens already. Proper boost mapping has vastly reduced driveline shocks that occurred on OEM boost control which gave large spikes on gearchanges. On launch, the throttles are already held back considerably if you log them, again they move quicker than the turbine speeds can be altered by moving the wastegates, so it is best to stick with the existing model and map appropriately.
 

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I'm glad people appreciate the subtlety, it is a more mature power delivery, and in 6th gear on full throttle you get exactly the same boost as before. In all the other gears the aim is to get the same peak boost as in 6th, so a little more than before - IF you are at full throttle. 1st won't do it due to time and load etc, a mechanical limitation.

This takes away the compromises, there is more velvet at part throttle, the iron fist is stronger than ever in the lower gears, I tried 2nd gear on full throttle and it just goes ridiculously sideways on a straight bit of road, but I now see the same full throttle peak in 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th now whereas before there was a small difference as you can see in the graph Ben posted from the previous version of boost control.



There is no time to reduce boost on gearchanges, they are so quick that the only way to reduce engine torque is to retard the ignition timing which happens already. Proper boost mapping has vastly reduced driveline shocks that occurred on OEM boost control which gave large spikes on gearchanges. On launch, the throttles are already held back considerably if you log them, again they move quicker than the turbine speeds can be altered by moving the wastegates, so it is best to stick with the existing model and map appropriately.
Thistle, I've been called old, ugly, sad and a dickhead but NEVER mature.....thanks:bowdown1::bowdown1:"
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Great news. At the current conditions this will be very good to have. Looking forward trying a not too tame version ;)

GTC really leads the way again. Anybody who owes a GTR + Cobb AP really doesn't do just to his car and AP without having the GC guys doing you a custom RPM based map!
Tom, i don't have your email addy to hand for some reason and your on my to do list. can u pls shoot me a mail if you would like free update to try out ? cheers ben
 
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