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Discussion Starter #1
I have read many interesting threads on this great forum detailing cars with different specs and what power/torque figures they produce. I have owned 4 GTR’s myself over the past years and have had very different specked cars strangely producing same end result power figures. Recently I have seen two well known race cars running std air boxes (replacement filter) making reliable big power along with an 8 second Drag car using STOCK coil packs, even watched two cars recently run constantly quick ¼ mile times on stock head gaskets; and they have been running this way for over a year – Long enough for problems to show !!

So my Question is :

Do we really need all these expensive mods such as up rated injectors, Super sonic coil packs, up rated fuel pumps, up rated head gaskets, twin air filter set ups, etc, etc to make decent power (Up to 500 BHP) or are we being victims of others pursuing profits for there businesses ?

I have a suspicion that the Standard engine used correctly is a lot stronger than we are all led to believe – BUT that would be Crap for Business !!!!


(Tongue in Cheek) :chuckle: What’s Next “ Steel Competition Underpants needed when running over a Bar of BOOST !! “
 

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Only time will tell. Surely a car that has been uprated with various performance parts will last longer than a car running on standard parts? Alot would would depend on how the 2 cars were run,but if they were run hard-I would opt for the modded one. Me and edmy were discussing this just the other day-I got a good telling off!:chuckle:
 

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i think the point that pegbox is trying to make is very similar to my opinion
do we really need all these fancy parts!!?? i agree a good quality fuel pump and injectors to give enough fuel, but cams, head gaskets and coil packs do we really need them??

[email protected] runs standard coil packs he runs 9's!!
other tuners would insist splitfire!!

many many people run stock head gasket well over 500bhp!!
other tuners insist anything over 400bhp steel head gasket needed!!

cams, one guy came up on the other post and said stock cams can run 700bhp!!

the list goes on.
 

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i head gaskets and coil packs do we really need them??

QUOTE]



Iv not uprated either of the above,because I was told I would only benefit if I was aiming for 500bhp or above!

Edmy and some other big names in NZ have done some very good times on standard parts and that cant be ignored.
 

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TREG; said:
Iv not uprated either of the above,because I was told I would only benefit if I was aiming for 500bhp or above!

Edmy and some other big names in NZ have done some very good times on standard parts and that cant be ignored.

:thumbsup:
 

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[/IMG]

this was done on
STOCK fuel pump
STOCK ecu
STOCK cams
STOCK FPR
STOCK turbo's
STOCK head gasket
and maybe a little cheating gas :chuckle:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Edmy, I noticed in a previous post you quoted a recent dyno run of 438BHP and that the operator had comented that the car was still running rich indicating plenty in the fuel supply department. Am i correct in thinking that this was on the Stock Injectors ?????
 

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yes STOCK injectors, i will be able to prove shortly how much they can actually do as part of some R+D.
 

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[/IMG]

this was done on
STOCK fuel pump
STOCK ecu
STOCK cams
STOCK FPR
STOCK turbo's
STOCK head gasket
and maybe a little cheating gas :chuckle:


If your car lasts with no serious problems for the next 50k,you have my vote.
 

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yes STOCK injectors, i will be able to prove shortly how much they can actually do as part of some R+D.
Excellent - am looking forward to reading that, ed :) Have to say I love it when people bring some technical DIY-researched info to the forum :)
 

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So my Question is :

Do we really need all these expensive mods such as up rated injectors, Super sonic coil packs, up rated fuel pumps, up rated head gaskets, twin air filter set ups, etc, etc to make decent power (Up to 500 BHP) or are we being victims of others pursuing profits for there businesses ?
If a component fails, as OEM parts are of similar cost to performance parts, it makes sense to uprate them rather than simply replace them..

Otherwise I would use the following guidelines:

Uprate your injectors when the duty cycle of your existing ones goes consistently over 80%;
Uprate your coil packs when one of the original ones dies or if you are going for big power;
Uprate your fuel pump if your existing pump cannot deliver enough fuel required when mapping it;
Uprate you head gasket whenever your existing one fails, or if you are taking the head off as a matter of course;

You may have a point about the induction though?!? but then again it cost bugger all to uprate anyway.. :D
 

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As far as I know stock injectors will take you to 460ish brake, up the fuel pressure and they should be good for around 500 bhp. but wait until many better people prove me wrong.

But I have to agree that the list of parts needed for a certain power is long and needless.

A set of apexi power intakes cost me the best part of £300, so not cheap.
 

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I do get your point though pegbox, there is an awful lot of modding out there that is totally unnecessary..

My std injectors maxed out at around 430bhp [at peak revs], and I was told that upping the pressure alone was not a good idea.

£300 for induction is "quite" cheap in the grand scheme of things ;)
 

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Some mods have been proven as very necessary eg. uprated oil pump, oil pump collar for r32 crank, oil restrictors in some big power RB26, crank dampers.

But there are undoubtedly other mods that are not absolutely necessary. In many of these instances the cost of aftermarket parts is not far off the OEM part, and at replacement interval it makes more sense to just fit an aftermarket part.

OEM parts may also be able to take the beating but what about durability? Luckham's post above gives some good examples (injector duty cycle as one).

What you need to consider, in accountant's terms, is the marginal output compared to the marginal costs. In between all of this you need to look at other qualitative factors and then make a decision accordingly.
 

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yes STOCK injectors, i will be able to prove shortly how much they can actually do as part of some R+D.
Umm... About 444cc worth I would guess? Like to see you running more than say a genuine 430/450 maybe with a set of stock injectors, without resorting to dangerous fuel pressures.
 

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Let's have this discussion in five year's time and see who's standing next to the same car without having to have had significant rebuild work.

Exactly my point:chuckle:
But I would think alot less than 5 years.:chairshot
 

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obviously not grasping the point here :rolleyes:

the point is were being told we need all these parts and we dont actually need them!!

the comment about five years is silly i.e rally cars get rebuilt after a couple of stages, so if ur driving it hard track days and drag racing of course its going to need rebuilding eventually.
 
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