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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

I am going to start building a kit car soon and have gone for the Fiero Venom, at first i was interested in getting a cosworth at getting it to around 550bhp but looking at the costs to get the engine upto that spec is alot of cash. So i was speaking to one of your fellow members of the GTR Club and we came up with the idea of using a Skyline GTR engine in the kit car.

Has anyone else got experience in skyline transplants ?
Whats everyones views and ideas on this ?

Would be kool to hear afew of your ideas and all, and need some help on this,


Cheerz guys
Matthew Doe
Cornwall, UK
 

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If you keeping the 4wd, id prob go for a RB26, but if going RWD, id "probably" go Cossie due to easier to fit (smaller than a GTR lump), far cheaper, and IMO better tuners in the UK, tho GTR powered anything is much cooler, lol.

How was you thinking of getting 550bhp with the Cossie engine, and what sort of prices? The usual RS500 GrpA spec would be hard pushed to get 550 on pump fuel, and cost about 12k from your average place, but TBH RS500 spec is outdated these days (about 15years outdated).

550-600 bhp is pretty simple and getting quite common on a cossie these days if you go to a decent tuner and not one thats stuck in the RS500 glory days like most!

IMO you go- 4x4 block, std balanced and shot peened crank and rods, decent low comp forged pistons, decent head gasket, cams, flowed head, decent headgasket, decent inlet plenumn, WRC inlet runners, 8 grey inj, 2wd ex manifold converted to run external wastegate, GT35 Turbo, 45mm Turbosmart ProGate, RS500 Intercooler or similar, 3.5" or 4" bore exhaust (Most cossies use 3" but it IS a restriction at 500+), Esc Cossie P8 Managment or whatever you feel like if u want better (tho it can run coilpacks, water inj, anti-lag, 8inj, etc, its fine), and hey presto 550-600bhp on pump fuel at normal revs, very drivable, decent relaibility, and relativley low cost (i got no time to do sums, but it depends who u know n where u buy from).

550-600bhp is a funny number on GTR engines, its way past the simple mods (it can be done on std internals tho, but i dont think many people reccomentd it), but then much more power isnt much more money. And i wont say a price, but GTR prices in the UK are "special" to say the least, im sure a search of the forum will bring up some costs people think for that power!

GTR engines have a MUCH higher potential (well into 4figure bhp if you want it), and sound amazing, but if you want only 550bhp then the above should be some help!
 

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Trouble is cosworth tuners charge obscene amounts for tuning an engine far beyond what it was intended for. I think they take advantage of people's modding bug for an engine that sits IMO a shed. I mean you can understand spending money on a skyline engine as it belongs to such an all round performance package... i mean 6 cylinders or 4 which would you chose for reliability at 500bhp +

I suggest buying a sorted R32GTR from japan already modded to say 450bhp and then at least you will have a car to run-around in until you transplant it.

regards

Jonathon

N.b I understand cosworth owners may take offence to that but i don't really care as this is a skyline forum and its not an outlandish statement to make.
 

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WTF you on swishboy? You obv have no fookin clue what your talking about...

Cossie tuners are MASSIVLY cheaper than Skyline Tuners for a start.

Far beyond what it was intended for? PMSL. It was intended that the engine make 500+bhp even with a turbo that was too small, and survive GrpA World Touring Car races, which it did, so wheres the overley stressed thing come from?
ESPECIALLY when RB26s were designed for the same reason, and to push out 600-650bhp, but tuners tune them to over double that amount, so what were you talking about overly stressed??? :rolleyes:
What was a RB25 designed for? Doing the shopping?

You drive a GTST right? So how in gods name can you go on about "all round performance car"? An Escort/3Door/RS500 cossie is a FAR more all-round performance car. All but GTR skylines are really nothing special as standard, dont people in the UK get that?

Sheds? Thats a IMO sorta statment, fair enough, but when it comes down to it, wrong. A Escort Cossie of the same age as a GTST is worth MORE. A fairly standard 1986/87 3Door Cossie costs on average 7-10k, a RS500 of the same age costs 10k+!
Only relatively cheap ones are Saffs, and even they are worth a fair bit in good nick, a lot more than i bet a GTST is when they the same age...
Dont forget Skyline prices in the UK are massivley inflated over what they cost in Japan, due to people like you beliving they so superior, in their home country they cheap as chips, esp non-GTRs (and Cosworths cost a fortune over there, even more than here, for the same reasons Skylines are costly here).

Whats the amount of cyls got to do with reliability?? Nothing! Even capacity has little to do with reliability, 80s F1 cars were 1.5litre and well over 1000bhp! And the capacity difference between a Cossie YB and a RB is only around 500cc. Engine strength has little to do with capacity and a LOT to do with strength. Capacity has no bearing at all on maximum power on a force inducted engine either.
And you cant get 1200bhp+ out of a lot of engines with any form of reliability with double the capacity and cyls as a RB, so the engine itself has proven that you talk balls, lol.

Cant stand people like you, spouting off about somthing you know nothing about, giving "advice", and thinking you own somthing soo superior, when in fact a GTST is not even a sports car, its jus a average looking, average performance, big touring coupe.

Its GTR thats special, not Skyline, Skyline is just a type of car, most of which are very odrinary, like an Escort, Sierra, 3series bimmer, etc etc...
 

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Jus thought id add-

Like i said in the first post, the RB26 is a far far better engine, and built right itd last better than a similar power YB, but at 550-600bhp, with SOME UK tuners finaly living in the present instead of the RS500s glory days, i think the price dont justify running a RB if theres no other requirments barring that power, with decent reliability, at the least cost.

I know if i only wanted 550-600bhp, and didnt have serious traction issues, idve kept the Cossie instead of getting a GTR...
 

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kit

Having just completed the build of a kit car myself i can see a couple of points worth noting
I would definately use 4x4 in this kit as i had a look at it myself and i believe it is basicaly a tubular chassis and lots of fibre glass
This means very light and will be hell with only rwd and 500 bhp
that kit is an awesome kit and very realistic(moulds taken from an original)
However i must warn that it is a very intensive job and the mechanical bit is the easy bit!!!!!!!!!!!! Once it is driveable there will be about double the work to get it to a high standard of finish!!
Good luck with it anyway mate :p If you need any advice etc we are all here for ya ;)
I know what i would choose but then im biased :smokin:
 

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ohh steve i love cosworths!!

PMSL @ steve
Ok whatever mate i know your a die hard cosworth fan and thats nice, i'm glad to hear you had so much fun in one. But lets talk economics the GTR engine was built for 500bhp and the cosworth wasn't. To tune the GTR engine up to 450bhp its going to be relitively cheap i.e full exhaust/induction/abbey 1.2bar chip/boost controller, thats about it.
Actually thinking about it now you could probably get a 550-600bhp R32GTR for around 10k imported and thats a whole car not just an engine which seals my argument.
Now originally i said nothing about tuning the car over here to said power, as i suggested importing an R32GTR with the power already around 450bhp. The kit car is a scale model of a dodge viper so considering a V10 sat in the original, it may not be hard to transplant the skyline lump in there and possibly the 4wd transmission. In my mind that will be the deciding factor over which engine to go for and nothing else. And a skyline powered viper replica would be something special over the usual cosworth engine.

Now as for the blatant GTS bashing that you can't help doing.. what is this all about? I mean you seem to suffer from some kind of superiority complex mate. I could buy an R32GTR for the money my GTS-T is worth but i don't want one and thats my choice. I happen to like the lines of the R33 over the R32 and thats my preference and in no way do i feel inferior to you, sorry if that hurts your ego :D :D
And if you think 300bhp in a RWD car is boring well i guess you must need more excitement than me lol :D :D

regards

Jonathon
 

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Mate, your backtracking so fast youl trip over your heels, lol.

Cossie YBs were designed for 500bhp, i said that.

All my other post did was to reply to all the totaly unfounded bullshit you came out with, which you handily dont mention this time round.

If you thing youl get a good condition R32GTR with a genuine 550-600bhp for 10k imported, your having a laff mate.

[email protected] saying i got a superiority thing goin on, when your the one slagging cossies majorly like your cars soo special.

Superb mate ;)
 

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dagenam dustbins

Steve save your cosworth twoddle for someone who gives a hoot!
After all this is a skyline forum and cosworths are common dagenam dustbins in most members opinion, and yes i do think skylines are superior to any Ford rust bucket.
I think the car is superior not the owner which is where we differ obviously!
The performance of a cosworth may be better than a skyline derivitive but its a complete package i.e performance + visual appeal, most people don't want to be seen in a Turd like a Ford. Not to say most of the people who drive these cars are Kevs/ boyracers that are so proud, and are yet to be enlightened to something better.
This is probably why you moved up to a skyline as you were sick of the image and poor reliability of the dagenam dustbin.

who on earth would buy one?? Your preaching to the wrong people on this forum! They are so outdated and ugly..something which any skyline would better.
I'm sorry to tell you this but the market in R32GTR is flooding as of late, import companies are tripping over themselves sell these cars..great cars of course but showing the test of time thats all.

regards

Jonathon
 

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Nice car that, would be a shame to only put 4 cylinders into it. It'll be a rocket whichever route you choose (i'd go 4wd ;) )

Oh, and please don't mention the C word again, there's a good chap! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #15
End of the day im going for something different and treating money as no object, ok best not look at in that way lol .... I'm planning for around a year until i have a good £40,000 saved up for the hole project .. Idealy i would like

RB26DETT with HKS GT3240 on a Holinger DogBox

Go all out dogz bollox basicly, but im still looking at the weight of the car as it's a kit car im not gonna need THAT much power, but with a good ECU and mapping, along with the power of a laptop im sure the power could be broke down into many stages !

Why skyline, no not the repuation of the name but the repuation of the engine and the difference, i have to agree when this is the replacement of the big boys engine and the cosworth of it's time, it would be easy to put a cosworth engine in it, but it's like alot of the other fieros they bring out, i wana go for something difference !

So im looking at planning it on the RB26 now, but just gotta figure out if it's possible to put the engine in it, im gonna try and give Fiero a ring sometime in the week and see what they think about it :)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think the car cost if you want them to make it is around £22,000 ISH !

I'm really not sure, because im not gonna get them to put the engine in.. I'd love to build the kit car my self, but im worried of my workmanship on it being cr4p so im gonna get it build professionaly then put in the engine and mods etc :) !

I think it's gonna be a rapid beast at the end of the day, but haven't got a clue on how easy it is to put another engine in this venom as it was made for cosworth or V8 (with mounts) !

I really dont wana go 4X4 either, but it's prob most avisable with all that power ! .... 70/30 .. perhaps ! i just reeally like the sound of all that power and RWD action :D... !

What sorta works gonna have to be done to handle those turbos by the way ?? much ?
 

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this could be controversial..........

if you would prefer RWD and are only looking for about 450bhp why not consider using the RB25DET engine?

it's not massively dificult to get that sort of power out of it, has better low down drivability, costs a lot less that the RB26 to start with and is just as reliable.

you also wouldn't have to worry about fitting the 4WD drivetrain and associated electronics.

just a thought.

Simon
 
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