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Discussion Starter #1
It's been crap ever since they brought in the V6 engines. Now don't get me wrong, I own a Skyline V36 that has a V6 and it sounds good, but a lot of the V6 engines made sound like crap. The F1 V6 cars sound like some sort of Hoover vacuum cleaner. The best era of F1 was with V10s in my opinion, especially when Schumacher ruled the grid.

Onto the next matter of business, Vettel shouldn't have gotten that penalty. I know many of you might disagree since Hamilton is British and we all know that people from the same country support one another, but honestly that race was robbed from Vettel. What a disgrace, especially when Hamilton tried acting like he didn't "want to win" that way yet you hear him complaining like Neymar on the radio. It seems retired F1 stars such as Nigel Mansell, Jenson Button, and Mario Andretti are all against the penalty. It's just sad though, cause this same scenario occurred in Monaco of 2016 yet nobody made a big deal out of it.

And my current favorite F1 driver is Kimi Raikkonen. Wish they brought back Fernando Alonso though. The new drivers aren't interesting to watch except maybe Verstappen. They've really got to remove the environmental agenda from racing and bring back the good stuff. It's just not interesting to watch anymore.
 

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It's been crap ever since they brought in the V6 engines. Now don't get me wrong, I own a Skyline V36 that has a V6 and it sounds good, but a lot of the V6 engines made sound like crap. The F1 V6 cars sound like some sort of Hoover vacuum cleaner. The best era of F1 was with V10s in my opinion, especially when Schumacher ruled the grid.

Onto the next matter of business, Vettel shouldn't have gotten that penalty. I know many of you might disagree since Hamilton is British and we all know that people from the same country support one another, but honestly that race was robbed from Vettel. What a disgrace, especially when Hamilton tried acting like he didn't "want to win" that way yet you hear him complaining like Neymar on the radio. It seems retired F1 stars such as Nigel Mansell, Jenson Button, and Mario Andretti are all against the penalty. It's just sad though, cause this same scenario occurred in Monaco of 2016 yet nobody made a big deal out of it.

And my current favorite F1 driver is Kimi Raikkonen. Wish they brought back Fernando Alonso though. The new drivers aren't interesting to watch except maybe Verstappen. They've really got to remove the environmental agenda from racing and bring back the good stuff. It's just not interesting to watch anymore.
I tend to agree with every single point you made. :)
 

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if you look at the detailed analysis of the moves vettle made after he came off the grass you will see how clever he was in positioning the car to block lewis.

However that said I still don't think it should have been a penalty. There have been a few like penalties like this recently that detract from elbows out racing which is a real shame.

The big take away from this though is vettle can't handle the pressure any more, he just makes too many mistakes. I'd love to see verstappen in a merc or Ferrari to give lewis a real challenge.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
if you look at the detailed analysis of the moves vettle made after he came off the grass you will see how clever he was in positioning the car to block lewis.

However that said I still don't think it should have been a penalty. There have been a few like penalties like this recently that detract from elbows out racing which is a real shame.

The big take away from this though is vettle can't handle the pressure any more, he just makes too many mistakes. I'd love to see verstappen in a merc or Ferrari to give lewis a real challenge.
Still bull shit call in my opinion. When someone besides a Mercedes makes a mistake they get penalized. Like I said, Monaco 2016 was the same situation and nobody protested against Hamilton's win since he's a golden boy.

They just got to remove some of the rules because it's getting boring now. Keep the safety equipment, remove the V6s and add the V10s, remove the electronics and that will be a good show. The electronics in the new F1 cars just makes all of them look like they're driving the same. Their skills are masked by the electronics in other words.
 

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Much of the problem with F1 appearing to be a bit boring is due to the way it is televised. i.e. the camera work is terrible. Long lens head on shots show the car for a longer period of time, but give zero perspective on the shear distance being covered. Despite 1.6 v6 turbo motors, they are still absolutely battering around the track. If you think they’re now too easy to drive because of the electronics, you should try it? You have no idea. Trust me. :)

I agree the rules are causing the drivers to sometimes tuck in the elbows when they should be getting the red mist, but we don’t want them killing themselves anymore. And they would, because they are built differently to you and me.
 

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Still bull shit call in my opinion. When someone besides a Mercedes makes a mistake they get penalized. Like I said, Monaco 2016 was the same situation and nobody protested against Hamilton's win since he's a golden boy.

They just got to remove some of the rules because it's getting boring now. Keep the safety equipment, remove the V6s and add the V10s, remove the electronics and that will be a good show. The electronics in the new F1 cars just makes all of them look like they're driving the same. Their skills are masked by the electronics in other words.
You are kidding me? the Monaco move was nothing like the same, and the amount of bullshit calls Lewis has had against him is just as out of order as this call was.

I like the v6 hybrids, F1 should be about pushing the tech boundaries, I do think we should have less aero to allow cars to run more closely together and be able to make passes.

The biggest problem is that nobody else has got a car as good as the merc, any of the top tier drives would be just as dominating in it as lewis is (though I do think lewis would be doing better in the ferrari than seb is) I see no easy way of leveling the performance field without freeing up some regs to allow people to try different routes to get the same performance result.
 

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For me I suppose you could call it either way depending which camp you're in. But I think the the penalty was fair. If you dont want to be penalised then dont make the mistake. It was Seb who missed the corner making a mistake, so you could also say he left the track and then gained an advantage as Lewis would have passed. Seems he cannot cope under pressure.

As for being crap. The V6 engine has broken track record after track record, so how can they be crap, they are superior in all ways but noise. The real issue for pushing performance is the cap on both fuel and the number of engines, etc. allowed per season, but this is a good thing, right. They should be pushing the performance and engineering reliability to the max and this is where Mercedes have dominated. This is also why its very difficult to compare drivers of eras past with the newer drivers we have now.

This season has been much better for overtaking since the aero changes made last year have come into place, but the action is now mid pack given the lead the top 3 have over the rest of the pack.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Much of the problem with F1 appearing to be a bit boring is due to the way it is televised. i.e. the camera work is terrible. Long lens head on shots show the car for a longer period of time, but give zero perspective on the shear distance being covered. Despite 1.6 v6 turbo motors, they are still absolutely battering around the track. If you think they***8217;re now too easy to drive because of the electronics, you should try it? You have no idea. Trust me. :)

I agree the rules are causing the drivers to sometimes tuck in the elbows when they should be getting the red mist, but we don***8217;t want them killing themselves anymore. And they would, because they are built differently to you and me.
I never said they were easy to drive. I merely said that the electronics masks their true driving skills. The new F1 cars have traction control, so they don't really have to use much of their reflexes. Lewis is a good driver, but I wouldn't say he is spectacularly good compared to someone like Stirling Moss. The man had no traction control, no DCT, no ABS, etc. With old F1 the driver had to catch the car but nowadays most cars do all the work for them. They just all look the same, like when Rosberg and Hamilton were in the same team people would mix them up because their driving signature is not there. Like when Ayrton Senna still raced, there was not that much electronics to mask their abilities as the driver had to put their everything in the car still and he had his own signature of being fearless and dominating.

I'll even go as far to say the skills of older F1 drivers are better than the newer drivers, mainly because they did not have nannies and were more about handling. I still think the new F1 is homosexual. Assuming you're born in 1968, you have to agree the old glory days of motorsports are better than what they are now. If they had the safety down, and just kept everything simple and electronic-free then it would be a really good show.

F1 doesn't even care about the fans anymore. You see McLaren ride-alongs only with big name celebrities and the fans who pay a crap ton of money to watch the whole thing are usually ignored.

You are kidding me? the Monaco move was nothing like the same, and the amount of bullshit calls Lewis has had against him is just as out of order as this call was.

The biggest problem is that nobody else has got a car as good as the merc, any of the top tier drives would be just as dominating in it as lewis is (though I do think lewis would be doing better in the ferrari than seb is) I see no easy way of leveling the performance field without freeing up some regs to allow people to try different routes to get the same performance result.
Just saying he seems more favored. A large amount of retired F1 greats all agree that the call was absurd. Only person that tried making an analysis was some dude named Jolyon Palmer (who?) and just sides with Lewis because they're both British and you know how folks got to represent and support the same countrymen.

The technological advancements aren't anything good. They just have too much grip and lousy handling. Sudden twitches and not driver-lead. The only good thing to come out is safety, and that's pretty much it.

And the V6 is for pussies. F1 has to take notes from Nascar because Americans, despite the crap they probably get from all of the Europeans, know how to put on a good show.

That being said, Schumacher is the greatest of all time. :popcorn:
 

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Traction control was banned in 2008. They can change bias and engine modes but this is not the same. There still shifting 900bhp when they strike the pedal. As for abs, show me a f1 car that hasn't locked up on corners or on the straights.

I will agree that f1 is moving away from fans, you only have to see some of the circuits there signing that have 90%empty seats.

Schumacher was great but I don't think you can compair with the new breed. It's like the old Tyson versus Ali.

Down force is the killer here.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Traction control was banned in 2008. They can change bias and engine modes but this is not the same. There still shifting 900bhp when they strike the pedal. As for abs, show me a f1 car that hasn't locked up on corners or on the straights.

I will agree that f1 is moving away from fans, you only have to see some of the circuits there signing that have 90%empty seats.

Schumacher was great but I don't think you can compair with the new breed. It's like the old Tyson versus Ali.

Down force is the killer here.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Damn, I guess I'm wrong. I was for certain thinking they had traction control, guess it's just the grip doing it's job. And the ABS thing I meant the electronic rear brake control system. My mistake.

Yes sir. NASCAR, despite it's boring race, allows fans to take part in a lot of activities that F1 does not allow. I know they have to make money, but F1 seems like they only care about the money now and not the fun aspect.

I'd think of the comparison more of Tyson and Mayweather, since the newer generation sell themselves out with brands.
 

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There were some quite interesting dices in the middle of the pack today.

Let's be honest - it was crap with engines sounding like trombones.
 

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the sound of the engines was the least thing wrong with this race. it was an utter snooze fest, barring merc screwing up I don't see how lewis and merc won't walk away with both championships this year.

almost not worth watching any more races.
 

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the sound of the engines was the least thing wrong with this race. it was an utter snooze fest, barring merc screwing up I don't see how lewis and merc won't walk away with both championships this year.

almost not worth watching any more races.
Yes Simon, it's unlikely that I'll ruin my Sunday afternoon again to watch it live. If there's a good race I'll watch a recording.

The trombone sound isn't a problem when there's exciting racing.
 

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I've watched the sport religiously for the last near 25 years.

This is the first time I've genuinely lost complete interest. It took a big dive already when the V6 was introduced. The engine itself may not even be the biggest issue, but the engine saving that goes with it, does. F1 is a sprint race. Not Le Mans. And the engines are so bastard expensive, small teams couldn't afford to run more engines even if it was allowed. And it's still an idiotic ruling, seeing as mercedes goes through over 100 engines on the dynos each year to pick out the best ones....might as well have stuck them in cars then and run to death for each race!

Well done Mercedes, build the best car once again with your enormous team (1500 employees in Mercedes, 1000 at Ferrari and just 650 at Red Bull (!). No wonder they're leading. An Endless supply of money and employees, running endless simulations and various concepts for not only this year but next years car...it's unstoppable. Imagine trying to compete with Mcdonalds today? isn't going to happen is it.

What gets me is that when Red Bull was doing extremely well, they did so with a smaller team. Ferrari/Mclaren moaning...FIA did their bidding. Wing flexing too much? Well Red Bull...here's some stricter regulations, get it done by next week. Exhaust blown diffuser? We'll take that away from one weekend to the next.

Last year Mercedes struggled with the tyres. So they got Pirelli to make them some which had to be used instead. At the end of last year, when everyone is perfecting their 2019 car, Pirelli suddenly said they'll use the Mercedes spec tyres for all races...Funny how the one team that didn't get the tyres working well (and the team that has won everything in the last 5 years), gets to call the shots...and now run away with it. If the car blisters the tyres too much, pit an extra time. THEIR problem I'd say.

And the hilarious/tragic part? The Mercedes apologists are now saying ''well those are the rules, if Ferrari/Red Bull etc can't get the tyres to work they just need to build a better car!'' What ****ing logic is that?! The mighty Merc can't get the tyres under control but the rest, with their much smaller teams, has to adjust to their rules?

And don't even get me started on the penalties. Finally we get some racing and the idiots ruin it by making idiotic calls.
 

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Penalty was fair you break the rules you get a penalty, the rules been fair is a totally different argument altogether.

Drs is a farce, and allowing the cars to run this much downforce is bad for the sport.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yes Simon, it's unlikely that I'll ruin my Sunday afternoon again to watch it live. If there's a good race I'll watch a recording.

The trombone sound isn't a problem when there's exciting racing.
I can attest to V6s sounding like crap. It is extremely difficult to make them sound good for some peculiar reason. The VQ35 and VQ37 engines are probably the best sounding V6 engines with the stock exhaust system that money can buy, but extremely difficult to make it sound good if someone wants to go the aftermarket route. I'm bias though :chuckle:

Now it's kind of a coincidence that when F1 went with the V6 engine at the start of 2014 Merc all of a sudden started winning like crazy. Their V8 and V10 engines were crappy, yet their V6 engines are phenomenal. I just really want F1 to go back to the V10 engines, they just sounded so damn good. You could get eargasms from those engines.

They really got to stop with the environmental bull shit and let motor-sports be fun with no f*cks given. And you know what else bugs me with the new F1? When all the teams try to hide their engines. For God's sakes, it's just an engine. You don't expect a master detective to figure out the microscopical details to make a better engine than what they have.
 

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Aaaagh - the wondrous V10. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they were running around 20,000 rev/min in qualifying.

I would like to see them back as well - naturally aspirated.

My lasting memory will always be attending my first F1 meeting - practice at Brands Hatch in the late sixties. The noise of John Surtees' Honda was simply incredible. I spoke to John many years later and the noise was his memory of the car but I got the impression he wasn't so keen on its reliability.

Something has to done to bring back a new level of excitement to F1 and I think a simplified but aggressive power train format is crucial and will benefit all teams.

Otherwise, I'll get my kicks from attending Nascar and DTM meets at Brands.
 
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