GTR Forum banner
41 - 60 of 83 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,304 Posts
Number 4+5 pistons look a bit suspect to me, when a engine burns water it normally cleans the piston up, them 2 pistons look like they have been cleaned up
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
Number 4+5 pistons look a bit suspect to me, when a engine burns water it normally cleans the piston up, them 2 pistons look like they have been cleaned up

from what I can see number 6 looks a little cleaner but id expect that due to it being the leanest cylinder.

I rebuilt a cat 3306 engine last year in my challenger, wasn't overheating but was blowing water out and the head was pitted like they always are when whater is getting it but there was no exhaust smoke at all, the leak was so small it was pressureizing with combustion pressure but no water could run back when the engine was stopped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
I'm pretty sure the oil gallery mod is just to stop the oil and water mixing, was you loosing water? I have found in the times I have had heads pressure tested doesn't allways show if the head is cracked as the crack opens when the head warms up. But that would usually pressure rise the water system any way and blow rad caps/hoses.

To me your head gasket looks pretty good I can not see were the water way has bridged to the cylinder. Have you checked your turbos and exhaust for oil?

also in his other thread I asked how the car runs on start up and it was perfect starting and running yet smoking heavily from the exhaust, that's one of the things that doesnt make sense to me as if theres enough oil/water in a chamber to smoke that bad it wont be firing correctly, and once running if the blow is big enough for water to run in when the engines stopped it would be pressureizing and blowing water out rapidly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,304 Posts
from what I can see number 6 looks a little cleaner but id expect that due to it being the leanest cylinder.

I rebuilt a cat 3306 engine last year in my challenger, wasn't overheating but was blowing water out and the head was pitted like they always are when whater is getting it but there was no exhaust smoke at all, the leak was so small it was pressureizing with combustion pressure but no water could run back when the engine was stopped.
Why would no6 be leaner though? They all have the same size injectors? That piston looks a little to clean for me if that's fueling I would have more fuel added and richen them all up. I'm not a massive fan of running engines on the limit of afr I think a good 11.5-12 is best IMO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,304 Posts
also in his other thread I asked how the car runs on start up and it was perfect starting and running yet smoking heavily from the exhaust, that's one of the things that doesnt make sense to me as if theres enough oil/water in a chamber to smoke that bad it wont be firing correctly, and once running if the blow is big enough for water to run in when the engines stopped it would be pressureizing and blowing water out rapidly.
Yes I make you right, in my experience with smoking turbo engines smoke on start up is common turbo issues as oil pressure is up
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
Why would no6 be leaner though? They all have the same size injectors? That piston looks a little to clean for me if that's fueling I would have more fuel added and richen them all up. I'm not a massive fan of running engines on the limit of afr I think a good 11.5-12 is best IMO
My r33 as an example runs 11.5 afr and number 6 was cleaner and leaner. If you look at the inlet cyl 1 has the least air as iits a right angle after the plenum inlet, number 6 is straight down and will offer the least resistance so will get the most volume of air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,751 Posts
Discussion Starter · #47 ·
I think I am going to get the bottom end rebuilt too the whole thing is stuffed and scores in the cylinder bore and having a narrow crank does not inspire confidence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,751 Posts
Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Got a call back from the engineering company, they have pressure tested the head and is ok, how ever they found it slightly warped and will need to skim it by 6 thou. Could this explain the water in the cylinder and why I was getting white smoke despite the gasket being ok?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
Got a call back from the engineering company, they have pressure tested the head and is ok, how ever they found it slightly warped and will need to skim it by 6 thou. Could this explain the water in the cylinder and why I was getting white smoke despite the gasket being ok?

if you were getting water in a cylinder you should of had a misfire especially on start up as the cylinder would of had water sitting in it ontop of the piston and water will mess up the combustion cycle until its gone.

are the turbos ok ?

ive seen a few engines petrol and diesel and they will lock up on start up if theres enough water in the cylinder to hyd lock the piston as water will not compress, needs spark plug or glow plug removed and engine turned to clear it then start it straight up and get it running before it fills up again, then run with no water system pressure at all so it doesn't blow anything by removeing seal on pressure valve.


why are you saying "can that explain the water in a cylinder", did you test and diagnose and find water in a cylinder then ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,751 Posts
Discussion Starter · #50 ·
When the head was removed there was no water in any of the cylinders. When I started the car previously after you asked me to test I did not get any misfire. I did check the rad and expansion tank felt the water had some viscosity of oil. I did not have a probe to test for hydro carbons. Also there was white smoke coming out of the exhaust at idle.

I will have to get them checked of can I do that myself? When I removed hard lines that connect into the turbos two water and two oil? I seem to remember water coming out of both of them. I did not see much oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,751 Posts
Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I am saying can a head that is warped by 6 thou or 0.15mm result in water entering the cylinders?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
When the head was removed there was no water in any of the cylinders. When I started the car previously after you asked me to test I did not get any misfire. I did check the rad and expansion tank felt the water had some viscosity of oil. I did not have a probe to test for hydro carbons. Also there was white smoke coming out of the exhaust at idle.

I will have to get them checked of can I do that myself? When I removed hard lines that connect into the turbos two water and two oil? I seem to remember water coming out of both of them. I did not see much oil.

oil floats on water as water is denser, ive seen it lots of times on machines when the water to oil coolers fail on engine and transmission there will be brown or black oily sludge floating in the rad brown for trans and black for engine. put a tiny bit of oil in a puddle of water and a tiny amount all of a sudden looks like a big amount !

2 lines on the turbo were oil in and out and 2 were water in and out.

you can check if there is any large amount of play in the turbo shafts, if they have failed that bad there might be some oil in the compressor side ive rebuilt a couple and the oil was pouring into the compressor housing and in the inlet on non intercooled diesels.

honestly It sounds like you don't know what your doing tbh, get the car to someone who knows what there doing, you could potentially end up spending a fortune and replaceing loads of parts that don't need replaceing, when the car ran perfect I cant understanding you stripping it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,751 Posts
Discussion Starter · #53 ·
I do not claim to be an engine specialist, however you keep saying that I should not of stripped it. Why did I strip it? Well something was causing an issue with oil in the water system. Be it turbos, head gasket what ever. In my ownership 7+ years the engine had never been opened up or looked at and it was about time I had a look and from what I can see and I am not blind there are scores in the bore of cyl 6 and 5 those two cylinders were 20% down on compression. Also having taken the valves out inlet on cyl 6seat has damage which would again explain lack of compression.

So tell me what I have done wrong? I am asking on a forum for some information and advice because it is not clear where the water came from having had the head pressure tested and no cracks, no obvious sign of gasket damage and a slight warp in the head. I have yet to check the turbos which is what I will be doing next.

We are not born experts but we has humans can learn and pick up things along the way. As for getting it to someone professional to look at? Well there are so many so called experts but only when they want to take £££'s in the process and when something goes wrong through their negligence or lack of know how they put their hands up saying not our fault.

I would rather take my time and even if it means learning as I go along I would take more care of my work than someone else. If the car ran perfectly I would not have taken it apart. There was white smoke coming out of the exhaust and creamy emulsion over the cams and oil cap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
I have only tried to help you from the start, it seems odd your symptoms. when you did a comp test did you do a wet and dry test so as to isolate where the loss of compression is ?

check those turbos asap as perfect running pumping smoke out is usually turbo dumping into the exhaust.

im no specialist ive not one days college to my name and no gcses, but I have experience of fixing cars and tractors of 23 years since I was 11 years old when I got my first car :)

sorry if it seems im coming across having a go, its not intentional im just trying to help with how I do things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,751 Posts
Discussion Starter · #55 ·
No worries mate, I did do a dry and wet test, on the wet test the compression raised slightly on no.6 which was the worst, 5 was a little worse than the rest of them 1-4 were very well matched.

What is the best way to check turbos?

This is making me confused also lots of variables and things not adding up which is why I am asking questions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
No worries mate, I did do a dry and wet test, on the wet test the compression raised slightly on no.6 which was the worst, 5 was a little worse than the rest of them 1-4 were very well matched.

What is the best way to check turbos?

This is making me confused also lots of variables and things not adding up which is why I am asking questions.

look at the compressor and exhaust wheels if there wet with oil or water they are leaking, and check for any excessive side to side and in and out play in the turbo shaft.


what where the exact comp test results wet and dry ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
721 Posts
Intereresting read, After looking at all the info my guess is it is probably the turbos. There is a good chance that on start up there is water getting into the exhaust system. One think you did mention is that the car has been standing for a while. This dose not normally have a bad effect on head gaskets , but can have an effect on other seals and of course sticking rings on pistons. Any chance the engine has suffered frost damage ? , again this can be an issue to damage seals and open up cracks that do not normaly cause a problem. Also on some turbos the pressure side of things for water and oils are less and this can give rise to mixing area where seals are not good. Again the tubs are outside the engine and get effected by the cold "Frost damage"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,751 Posts
Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Dry:

cy1 - 158psi,
cyl2 - 157psi
cyl3 - 157psi
cyl4 - 155psi
cyl5 - 149psi
cyl6 - 133psi

Wet:

cyl5 - 157psi
cyl6 - 138psi

Checked the turbo no signs of water or water marks there is some side to side movement and also end play. I do not have a dial gauge so cannot be certain of figures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
On my old gtst engine the oil rings on cylinder 6 had colapsed . I changed turbo , rebuild head and all was a waste of time and money .
If you want piece of mind rebuild the whole engine . I've never looked back and have never broken down since doing it.

When the money is right I'll forge the gtr's engine
 
41 - 60 of 83 Posts
Top