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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay Guys. Ever since I purchased my GTR33 there has been one thing that is a CONSTANT frustration to me. Initially I thought it was just my own incompetence or lack of skill, however as I learn my car more and more I started to question if this is truly the case.

The frustration I have is with cornering and going hot into turns with the GTR33. Now as I said, it may indeed be due to a lack of skill on my part, however I find that whenever I come hard into a corner or come extremely hot into a turn, the rear of the car likes to slide out from under me as if I was driving a full RWD vehicle. This is EXTREMELY frustrating to me!

Now let me say a few things, one I realize that the GTR is really a RWD vehicle that switches to AWD when necessary and is not really and AWD vehicle. Hence it is normal for it to have some RWD moments and can not be driven the same way you would drive a full time AWD vehicle. With this being my first non full time AWD performance vehicle however I am not 100% sure on what to expect from it. I know that I cant take a corner or a turn the same way that I would do in an AWD car, and I have attempted to change my driving style to suit the RWD inspired AWD. However it seems that no matter what I do I still have the same issues!

Now I will say I BELIEVE there are times when I do a maneuver or take a corner in my GTR that I would not be able to take in a RWD car, however as I have never driven a RWD car, I dont have much to compare it to. I have however stopped trying to drive it the same way I did my EVO and have tried to adapt my driving style to that of a RWD inspired AWD car.

I also realize that with an upgraded coil-over suspension system it will greatly improve the handling of the vehicle and I actually am about to order a Tien Coilover system. However even that would not fully answer my question.

Anyway, I am just wondering: Is it normal for a GTR to have the rear slide out from under you in a hard corner or hot turn? Or should the ATTESSA system be preventing this from happening? Conversely is the car working exactly as it should and it is my own lack of skill that is frustrating me? Am I expecting more from the ATTESSA system then it is designed to give?

Thanks a lot guys. I just have to know what the real story is. I mean I dont expect to be able to handle my GTR the same way I could my GSX or me EVO, but I expected a little more from the ATTESSA system.


-Sayajin
 

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the GTR is RWD when turning

only when the whels are facing forward and there's not too much laterel G' will it be AWD, and only then if the rear wheels are slipping.

Be careful!

if you want AWD through the corners, buy a Skylabs TSC from R32 Combat on the here.

Mook
 

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the GTR is RWD when turning

only when the whels are facing forward and there's not too much laterel G' will it be AWD, and only then if the rear wheels are slipping.

Be careful!

if you want AWD through the corners, buy a Skylabs TSC from R32 Combat on the here.

Mook
I second that, get a torque split controller from R32 Combat, totally transforms the handling (especially in the wet). Helps novices who aren't used to massive oversteer (not taking the **** here as I fitted one of these as I found the handling of my R33 gtr scary at some times) look like shumacher :D

Chris
 

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You will probably find that the back is sliding because you will be braking to late. I have done some high speed driving lessons and the first thing that i was told was always brake in a straight line. You need to remember that the advantage of the GTR is its ability to excite the corners quickly. Dont forget your car is over 1600kg and if you go into a corner to quickly, then yes it will spin the same as any other rear wheel drive car. (look at my signature, i have experience of this:) )
You cant really even try to compare a GTR to an Evo, the only thing that they really have in common is that they are both Japanese.
The Hicas can make the back of the car wiggle a little but it wont make it slide as it only moves 1 degree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
the GTR is RWD when turning

if you want AWD through the corners, buy a Skylabs TSC from R32 Combat on the here.

Mook
LOL! Already on the list! I told him I would get one after Christmas! Its the 1st thing to buy on my new year mod list.


Humm... I had no idea it was only AWD when straight.... One of the other things I was told is that ATTESSA only kicks in when pushing the throttle. Meaning you cant take a corner at a constant speed and expect AWD. You have to actually step on the gas IN the corner to make the ATTESSA engage. Any truth to this?

Also I doubt it is the HICAS system as it is not a steering thing, more of a sliding thing. As I said in my initial post, I do chalk much of it up to my own skill or lack there of.

It could indeed be despite my attempts not to, I still enter the corner the same way I did in my EVO. I have been trying to brake entering the corner and then accelerate coming out of the corner as you are supposed to in a GTR, however it could be I am still coming in too hot.


Also let me say I am NOT trying to turn this into a GTR vs EVO discussion. I completely realize they are 2 different vehicles designed for 2 different things. I am talking about ME changing MY driving style to suit my new vehicle. Thanks guys.

-Sayajin
 

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Humm... I had no idea it was only AWD when straight.... One of the other things I was told is that ATTESSA only kicks in when pushing the throttle. Meaning you cant take a corner at a constant speed and expect AWD. You have to actually step on the gas IN the corner to make the ATTESSA engage. Any truth to this?
Yes

but

in a corner the Attessa will do NOTHING, so don't accelerate

best bet is, brake in a straight line, balance the throttle through to the apex, and once clear of the apex and dialling out the lock, accelerate.

bearing in min, until the car straightens out, it'll be mainly RWD

mook
 

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There is no reason to want 4wd if you're cornering at a constant speed, and it's not as simple as to say that it does nothing unless you're going straight. It's true that the higher G force the less likely it is to apply front torque, but the fact you have a high G-Force usually means you have enough grip to run RWD only, if you slide it will apply front torque pretty quickly.

I've driven only RWD cars for a few years and to me the GTR handles like a RWD car except that when it slides the application of front torque means you need much less correction as the fronts pull you out of the slide. My old E30 needed armfuls of opposite lock and quick reactions whereas the GTR lets you point the car further up the road and exits the corner just right- usually just by steering straight or a little opposite lock. I for one love the handling - it was a major reason for the decision to get a GTR instead of an Evo, Impreza, GT4 etc etc - and the only reason i'd fit a torque split controller would be for the wet if you're not 100% concentrating on the driving.
 

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It sounds like its doing exactly what is was developed to do!

The active steer / torque modulation is designed to place the car into controlled oversteer and allow you to hold the slide, the angle of which is decided by your right foot.

This is the huge appeal of the GTR for me IMHO. You don`t have to be Senna to find and control the grip / slip angles. Conversely if you are `handy` you can make the car dance!
 

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Also make sure the suspension geometry is correct as a lot came in from Japan with too much rear camber for the road. If the rear camber is too large you will get too much oversteer at legal road speeds.

Andy's TSC is great especially in the wet.

The car's handling is fantastic as it is more geared towards the good/alert driver and having some fun, it is also a lot heavier than an Evo and will break traction more easily due to that.

This is an overview of the control system used by the GT-R. I also believe but have not been able to confirm as yet that the angle of the steering has an input on whether the car move torque to the front wheels - it has been said that any lock over 7 degrees restricts or stop the torque moving to the front wheels but not sure.

 

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Skyline69...brilliant..thanks for that. I think I'll print that off and keep in the car so when people ask why it goes sideways when it's 4WD I shall just hand them a copy!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Also make sure the suspension geometry is correct as a lot came in from Japan with too much rear camber for the road. If the rear camber is too large you will get too much oversteer at legal road speeds.

Andy's TSC is great especially in the wet.

The car's handling is fantastic as it is more geared towards the good/alert driver and having some fun, it is also a lot heavier than an Evo and will break traction more easily due to that.

This is an overview of the control system used by the GT-R. I also believe but have not been able to confirm as yet that the angle of the steering has an input on whether the car move torque to the front wheels - it has been said that any lock over 7 degrees restricts or stop the torque moving to the front wheels but not sure.

Thanks a lot. Question, this particular diagram is for ATTESA PRO is it not?

It is/was my understanding that only the PRO could change settings based upon lateral G's. This may of course be a misconception however.


-Sayajin
 

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"I think" the Pro was mainly just a faster sample rate for sensors - I believe the standard system on the R32/R33? used a 100Hz sample rate for the vehicle sensors and the Pro was faster while the R33(VSPEC) and R34 used the faster rate by default (the Pro had a faster CPU I believe). I'm not sure about the faster sample rate thing as I could never seem to track down an offical document on it only net rumour while writing my HICAS twitch document :(.

The Pro was also capable of left-and-right torque split for the rear wheels using an active LSD while the standard system only split the torque front to rear. The active LSD could change the amount of lock the diff had from open to various levels of locked.

They all use the lateral and long G and ABS sensors in basically the same way. Different models had the ABS and torque split curves changed in the ECU especially the Z-tune to make the car less tail happy and a faster track car but this took some of the rear wheel fun out of the car. The Pro also used true 4 channel ABS.

Andy's TSC fools the car by sending a lower Lat G signal, making the car think it is cornering LESS than it really is, therefore moving the torque to the front wheels more readily. Andy's TSC does something very similar to the race R32's in that they had a lat G controller to also to make the car faster in the wet (it is still surprising to me that more track day heroes on here are not using the Skylab as in the wet it should have a good advantage).
 

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I can imagine this is a common assumption made by GTR owners.

I always thought that the 4WD system cuts in when the rear wheels lose traction. I dont pretend to be a pro driver and I purchased a skylab TSC after I found the car to be tail happy, esp in the wet. :runaway:

Still gotta fit the thing but I'm off for a couple of weeks over the xmas break so I'll be fitting it then :)

- Kevin.
 

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Yeah I also thought the 4WD kicked in when you accelerated hard in a straight line, or when the rear wheels start spinning faster than the fronts round a corner, (losing traction), I've noticed my torque split guage move round corners before.

Alex B
 

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i must say i have a gtst as i wanted a tail happy car but even that needs hardly any correction for a rdw car unless you really give it some.not like any other rwd car ive driven.if you want 4wd handling buy a skylab controller or you should have kept your evo.can the skylab controllers be turned off easy as it would bug me if you couldn't get the rwd back when you want.
 

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i must say i have a gtst as i wanted a tail happy car but even that needs hardly any correction for a rdw car unless you really give it some.not like any other rwd car ive driven.if you want 4wd handling buy a skylab controller or you should have kept your evo.can the skylab controllers be turned off easy as it would bug me if you couldn't get the rwd back when you want.
There's an off switch plus the knob to turn it from 0 to 10 (all the way to 11 in Skylines :) ). It only changes the lat G signal to the ECU but that's enough to make the car easier to handle in the wet and apparently about 1 to 2 seconds in every 60 on a very wet circuit for a R32.

The rwd style of cornering with 4wd exit is the fastest way around a corner when executed correctly, that why the GT-R did it that way - permanent 4wd induces understeer and slows done corner exit speeds in a whole lots of situations. The permanent 4wd is a lot easier to drive at first as it has a consistent feel but with a bit of practice and talent the 2wd/4wd soon becomes more natural and feels more natural also.
 

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This is an overview of the control system used by the GT-R. I also believe but have not been able to confirm as yet that the angle of the steering has an input on whether the car move torque to the front wheels - it has been said that any lock over 7 degrees restricts or stop the torque moving to the front wheels but not sure.
I may be wrong but I believe the angle is 10' and any lock of 10' or more leaves the car rwd, for entry into the corner and as you come to the exit and straighten up the lock you boot it and the 4wd system kicks in as you lose (presumably) traction off the rears. At least that is what i was told, never managed it myself as I dont drive on a track only the roads:chuckle:
 
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