[kismetcapitan]

I really REALLY drove the car hard today, and found that I'm now pulling over 8000rpm, instead of power falling off. I just drove and shifted by feel, and found that my car showed nearly no lag. Checking the datalog, I found I was shifting over 8500rpm now, and a few times ran it up to 9000rpm.

Car felt like it was really in its element. Twin turbo pipe mod really seems to be doing the trick, as I've got more low-end grunt.

Feels great to just USE the car, although I've a wave of guilt now - hopefully, I won't be posting in a few days or weeks about spun bearings again. But the oil system held up and the engine was very smooth at full power at those rpm. All that balancing work definitely paid off.

But to just forget about the build, and just drive the car without a care in the world - man, have I ever built a monster!

 

[Nocturnal]

I found the LESS you care about a car, the LESS problem you get with it?
Anyone with me on this? As all the cars I ever care about ALWAYS goes wrong.

 

[Cris]

To a degree. Worse car I've ever had was the one I bought very quickly and wanted shot of ASAP - that didn't happen!

However the more you like a car the more ever single rattle sounds like it could be the end of the world.

 

[R33_GTS-t]

What you need is a strain gauge on the rods linked to a shift light.

 

[git-r]

Brilliant mate! Enjoy and keep up the good work:thumbsup:

 

[souroull]

What you need is a strain gauge on the rods linked to a shift light.

AHAHAHA

 

[Asim R32GTR]

Oh dear... poor poor stock rods!
Please do update us with pics when rod stick out and waves hello from the hole in the block

BTW, how can you tell if the power / torque isnt dropping? Just by driving the car? or do you have a torque measuring device in your car?

 

[tyndago]

During the World Challenge days with the R34 , N1 engine, I saw quiet a bit of time above 10k rpm on mis-shifts(even some 16k according to the Motec ADL2). Downshift, shiftlocks.

However, I don't like spinning the motors up too much. The loads, the forces, start to get nasty. If you do the math, from 8k to 9k to 10k get redonkulous.

At that many RPM's its actually cavitation at the inlet side of the oil pump that I am worried about a bit.

 

[kismetcapitan]

8000 is my shift point and I stick to it. I just felt a bit randy and wanted to see if all that balancing work was worth the money.

If the car pulls, it's making power. You can very easily feel when power tapers off as you no longer feel a big push - the car may still accelerate but more slowly, and it's time to shift gears.

Good point about the oil pump though. They say Tomei pumps dont break, but why push your luck? I've broken two pumps already, can't say I enjoyed it.

 

[tyndago]

Good point about the oil pump though. They say Tomei pumps dont break, but why push your luck? I've broken two pumps already, can't say I enjoyed it.

Who says they don't break ? I have one with an issue at the shop. Also when I was talking to Suzuki from Shift (Falken Nurburgring team), he said they broke one during a test. Its less likely to break, but if you try hard enough, anything can break.

 

[kismetcapitan]

but if you try hard enough, anything can break.

yep. 9000 is probably pushing it. 8500rpm? Stock is 8250. Tomei conrod bolts can make X difference. It's also how often too. My car might see bursts like that twice a month. Sadly, most of the time the car is driven at legal speeds. Lots of mechanical sympathy sees me shifting around 6500rpm when I'm just looking to have a little fun.

But you spend six figures building a car, I figure taking her out once and really seeing what she's got was worth it.

 

[kismetcapitan]

oh, and a year ago I posted here that I read on the Tomei website that they claimed no one had broken their pump. It was explicitly stated at the time. Don't see it there now, so guess it's been pulled off.

edit: I found it. Scroll down to the oil pump, they still make a very bold claim - "The Ultimate Oil Pump! This oversize oil pump is second to none. To date we have had no failures on this oil pump and no one has ever broken one."

 

[tyndago]

edit: I found it. Scroll down to the oil pump, they still make a very bold claim - "The Ultimate Oil Pump! This oversize oil pump is second to none. To date we have had no failures on this oil pump and no one has ever broken one."

The Tomei is a super buff oil pump. Its my favorite pump. The one I have might have eaten some metal bits from spinning a rod. Its a little crunchy. Maybe I will send it to Tomei to have them have a look at it.

The one that the Falken Nurburgring guys broke, might have been a very early one. Trust me, I was talking all up about the pump, and Suzuki said - "we broke one 16 hours into a 24 hour test..." Deflated me a bit. Thats why I kept the Nismo pump on the race car. The Nismo is pretty good,but not as nice as the Tomei

YouTube - RB26DETT Tomei Oil Pump vs Jun Oil Pump

 

[ATCO]

Sean, you might want to confirm this with Fuchigami San, but I'm sure he said using ACL bearings and R34 rods you are good for 9000 forever and 9500 with annual bottom end re-fresh. My 10,000 I think worried him...... and over 11,000 definitely cavitaties the oil pump.........

DaveG

 

[tyndago]

Sean, you might want to confirm this with Fuchigami San, but I'm sure he said using ACL bearings and R34 rods you are good for 9000 forever and 9500 with annual bottom end re-fresh. My 10,000 I think worried him...... and over 11,000 definitely cavitaties the oil pump.........

DaveG

I have some cavitation marks on pumps that have seen less than 11,000 rpms. GT42R equipped 2.8 liter that saw about 9500 rpms on an HKS full counter bottom end.

R34 rods are not any different than R32, or R33 rods.

I have talked to Aki before about the RPM thing. Revs scare me a bit, but maybe because I have done the math on the piston speeds. Everyone says the cars make a different sound above 10,000 rpms, but I prefer to try and keep them good in the 4000-8500 range.

Tomei pump apart

Jun Pump with cavitation marks on gears . This pump did not turn smoothly.

 

[ATCO]

Might have been R34 pistons not rods then!

 

[tyndago]

Might have been R34 pistons not rods then!

They are the same too. R32, R33, R34.

N1 pistons have a smaller top ring (1.2 mm vs 1.5 mm), but still a cast , not forged piston.

 

[ATCO]

All right, you forced me to look it up............

"That car has ATI damper pully when I build up the motor.
It has the pully right now, 9000rpm is safe rev.
But , you can use 9500rpm if you overhaul each year.
Connecting rod bearings will have damage.
R34GTR OEM add WPC coating is best way."

I was close! And it was June 2006! I've drunk a lot since then......

For info, the engine had HKS internals and revved happily for several years to 10,000RPM and multiple 10sec runs without rebuild or new shells. However, it was built by Fuchigami San :clap: not Toby! :thumbsup:

 

[tyndago]

"That car has ATI damper pully when I build up the motor.
It has the pully right now, 9000rpm is safe rev.
But , you can use 9500rpm if you overhaul each year.
Connecting rod bearings will have damage.
R34GTR OEM add WPC coating is best way."10,000RPM and multiple 10sec runs without rebuild or new shells. However, it was built by Fuchigami San :clap: not Toby! :thumbsup:

R34 bearings(shells) is what he was referring to. Not the rods or pistons. I am not sure how much they changed the spec but they might have.

Again its the piston speeds that scare me. I spin them up, trust me, but I try and keep the revs lower.

YouTube - Streets of Willow : In Car R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R

 

[ATCO]

Absolutely agree Sean. I'm familiar with max piston speed (based on stroke) and ring width, something most these days don't even know about. Its one of the reasons I've been reluctant to go down the longer stroke route with an RB30 engine. The numbers at 9000+ revs are huge (wrote a short article on it once for Skylines magazine, not sure how many understood it!).

If you could just bore out the block to give 3L plus but at the shorter (original) stroke I think the results would be very interesting.

Having said all that, when you consider how well the engine holds up at 9000(real)RPM it is testimony to the design and quality of the standard Nissan parts, let alone aftermarket ones.

DaveG