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Discussion Starter #1
I always reckoned that M3s were fast cars (although any I have been in have not had the big wow factor I was expecting) but I noticed from reading this month's Evo that it says of the new Z4 M Roadster (which is 85kg lighter than the new M3) - "Perhaps more important than the bald performance figures is the lap time set at the Nurburgring. At 8min 15sec, the Z4 M is said to be SIGNIFICANTLY quicker than the bigger coupe from which it borrows its engine and gearbox...".

I read in some BMW press releases that the CSL is just under 30secs faster than the standard car and the CSL can do it in under 8min due in a big part to the tyres it uses and that a PASM 997 S can do it in 8min 3sec.

Now I know from literature and videos that the old R32 in standard trim (sh*t exhaust etc) and 1990s road tyres can get around the Ring in approx. 8min 19sec so just HOW slow is a standard modern M3 around the Ring. Are we talking 8min 20sec or so :confused: . Surely they must be faster than the standard R32 GT-R of 17 years ago on sh*t tyres?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Pavlo said:
Go to the ring and try it for yourself
Will someone loan me their brand new M3 to try it pmsl - oh go on you know you want to :smokin: . I think I would be about 10 seconds slower than what it was capable of - damn that should have said "minutes".

I was just a bit surprised by the Evo thing as I always thought the new M3 CSL was about the 7min 40sec mark and that the standard one was just over 8min - Bit of a surprise to find out that things haven't move on that much in 17 years that all :(.
 

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I would assume a regular Skyline would be roughly equivalent to a regular M3 (weight, BHP, aerodynamics, etc are pretty much the same)
 

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Hi m8!

See here for the best list of lap times and the context they were set in...

M3 CSL 7min 50s
R33 GTR 7min 59s
Spec C 8min 06s
EVO IX 8min 11s
BMW E36 M3 8min 20s
BMW E46 M3 8min 22s
R32 GTR 8min 23s

Not all with same driver, conditions, tyres etc etc, but gives a rough idea...

Cheers :)

Rog
 

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This, like all tests, are very driver-dependent. Someone who's not familiar with a particular car, just isn't going to be as fast in it. As an example, the other driver of the NSX recorded a time of 8m 57.13... but this included a full 360 degree spin where the driver was quoted as saying he never had to take it out of second gear!
That's very telling, and a factor that people overlook surprisingly often.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
stu0x said:
That's very telling, and a factor that people overlook surprisingly often.
I'm talking about professional test drivers times here so apart from a few seconds here and there the times are going to be very reflective of the actual car's ability. I cannot see BMW letting Joe Bloggs from number 43 set their benchmark Ring time now can we :rolleyes: .

It just surprised me that in spite of all the new technology in the E46 M3 and it's tyres etc that the times for the R32 GT-R and M3 are almost the same around a road that is meant to one of the best judges of a car's all round on the road ability. The M3 has only a small power/weight advantage so maybe all the new technology means sh*te all and that a good old dose of power and weight saving is what really counts now that car technology has moved on so far in the last 2 decades.
 

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Without being too biased, the Skyline *IS* an amazingly good car - the laws of physics haven't changed, and standard road tyres aren't hugely different (it's not clear which tyres the R32 was running)...

Weight will always be it's downfall, but is also the reason why an E46M3 is no faster than an E36, I guess...

It would be even more interesting to compare wet lap times (although a standard EVO IX would probably have them both :p )

Testing a Skyline with £1500 of mods vs an EVO with £1500 of mods vs M3 with £1500 of mods would also be VERY interesting :D :smokin:

Cheers :)

Rog
 

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7min 59sec with R33 GTR was unofficial and has been said the car wasn't stock (boost & speed limiter removed). Later the Best Motoring recorded full stock R33 GTR 1 second slower and did flat out 8 minute @ the Nurburgring. The stock R32 otherwise has been confirmed officially to run in 8min 22sec, that's true. Now what confuses me is the stock R34 GTR V.spec did the Nurburgring in 7min 52sec; can anyone conferm this? Is it true? I've been asking this before but no one seems to know..

Anyway the stock e46 M3 isn't so impressive. The CSL is just another more race prepped road going M3 in my opinion. Think about this, a new modern M3 runs the same time as an 16 years old R32 GTR, IMO it's slow..
 

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I've seen numerous references to the R34 7.52 time, but most record it as "unofficial"...

Rog :)
 

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just rem that the skyline was the first production road car to do the ring in under 8 mins ! and yes, that was years ago !
 

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GTRJack said:
7min 59sec with R33 GTR was unofficial and has been said the car wasn't stock (boost & speed limiter removed). Later the Best Motoring recorded full stock R33 GTR 1 second slower and did flat out 8 minute @ the Nurburgring. The stock R32 otherwise has been confirmed officially to run in 8min 22sec, that's true. Now what confuses me is the stock R34 GTR V.spec did the Nurburgring in 7min 52sec; can anyone conferm this? Is it true? I've been asking this before but no one seems to know..

Anyway the stock e46 M3 isn't so impressive. The CSL is just another more race prepped road going M3 in my opinion. Think about this, a new modern M3 runs the same time as an 16 years old R32 GTR, IMO it's slow..

8min flat offical time for an R33 GTR? That's bloody fast! Does anyone have the clip for this?
 

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8:01.72 153.984 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")

Rog ;)
 

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The new Ford GT did a 7:52, I don´t think a Standard R34 GTR can do that.
The NSX-R was meant to be the first standard japanese car that managed a -8:00 min time on the ring. ...according to Best motoring
 

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andreasgtr said:
The new Ford GT did a 7:52, I don´t think a Standard R34 GTR can do that.
The NSX-R was meant to be the first standard japanese car that managed a -8:00 min time on the ring. ...according to Best motoring
I can live with that...the Ford GT is a true supercar....for right at $160K US It should be faster than most stock GTR's...hmmm, wonder how a completely stock R34 Nur would do, or for that matter, since the Z-Tune is considered a "production" car "cough, cough" how it would do? Anyone seen a time on the Ring for the Z?

I would still have to take the GT if one were offered to me...unless the Z-Tune is legal for street use in the US!!! :D
 

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The Admiral said:
8:01.72 153.984 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")

Rog ;)
I haven´t seen it but according to the Best Motoring website the only Ring time attack on that DVD was the one of the new EVO IX...?? Are you wrong or is it just that they haven´t listed it in the contents? :confused:

/P
 

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surely the 4wd system and quicker power delivery of the r32 gtr has benefits over the m3's rwd layout - probably using traction control as well.

i guess there are massive leaps and bounds in car handling/control over 17 years but comparing the m3 vs the 32 gt-r is just too much like chalk vs cheese.


if a standard 33 gtr can do 8:01 then i wouldn't be surprised about the 34 gtr doing 7:52 - surely more power and better handling would give the 9 secs over 13 kms or whatever the track length is.
 

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ISJ said:
surely the 4wd system and quicker power delivery of the r32 gtr has benefits over the m3's rwd layout - probably using traction control as well.

i guess there are massive leaps and bounds in car handling/control over 17 years but comparing the m3 vs the 32 gt-r is just too much like chalk vs cheese.


if a standard 33 gtr can do 8:01 then i wouldn't be surprised about the 34 gtr doing 7:52 - surely more power and better handling would give the 9 secs over 13 kms or whatever the track length is.

BM M3's have always been able to corner at over 1G, no stock GTR can do that (not even close, R34 0.88G). This is due in part to the all important 50:50 balance that BM strive for.
Round the Ring, unless wet (which would not allow record breaking times anyway), 4WD is of no advantage, in fact the extra drag would probably make it a disadvantage.
M3 has similar power from an NA, and if you were to choose between two engines that produced the same power, the NA would usually be faster round a track, than a turbo engine.
Frontal area and Cd of an M3 is better than any of the GTR's, and it is a lighter car.

I don't believe for one second that those times listed for STOCK GTR's are genuine, unless the ring is at a high enough altitude to severely disadvantage NA engines.

Modified, completely different story, that's when the GTR will come into it's own.
 
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