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Dear Skyliners.

Thought you may be interested in hearing what I got upto yesterday afternoon.

I went out in me mate Ronnies R33 with Mark from AbbeyMotorsport to do a little bit more tweaking. For those who may not know Ronnies car has a 2.8 kit with a T78. Well I gotta say if you ain't never seen it or been part of it, this mapping is a damn hard job. Some of this can be done on the Rolling Roads but the real world is where the final mapping takes place. A few times I dared to look over at Mark with his lap-top only to see loads of coloured lines going up and down and occasionally a 3D graph thingy and this mated with the exhaust gas analyser made me think mmmm better keep me eyes on the road :eek: .

The main thing was though the difference in how these onboard adjustments make the car perform/feel. I initially thought the car was pulling very well but after an hour the difference was quite amazing. Totally driveable with the kind of power that when I floored it for the final time the WHOLE CAR done what I can only describe as a power dance. The car seemed to be 'twisting' under the power. Not uncontrollable I might add but what a sensation.

The mapping has now allowed Ronnies car with a BIG single T78 to be producing 1.0bar of boost at 3,600rpm and to keep stonking all the way to its controlled max of 1.6bar where it's kicking out nearly 700bhp. Whats also amazing is all these parts are available off the shelf. At a cost I know :eek: but it is good to eventually see that all these parts work and that driveability is possible with big BHP cars. As well as with JamieM's 34 which is showing superb BHP and driveability with 2510's.

Must say thanks to Mark at AbbeyMotorsport for giving me the insight into what is a very hard and unseen part of our Skyline tuning/development and I can now understand why I don't see much of him. He's always developing something/somewhere and more often than not while we are all tucked up in bed. Keep up the good work.

glen

ps. Also had the privilege of going round in Andres Race34 which also being mapped by Mark but to be quite honest I just held the llap-top and never took me eyes off the track. What a driver and what a car. I first saw the car at Abbeys after they had built the engine but NEVER believed how it could go. And it was Andres first time at Donington. Top bloke.
 

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Lucky Git

Sounds like you had "fun" then Glen. Would be interested to see a car being mapped...never seen it done before.

In the past, alot of the GTI-R guys have used "Uni-Chip" piggy back ECU's, and said how they've watched them being mapped on rollers....always something i've wanted to see. Quite some skill being able to tell what is wrong and how to change this from a set of wiggly coloured lines on a laptop screen (i wouldn't know where to start - but then again, i wouldn't expect too).

I've seen andre's car at Abbey's several times, and drool over it everytime i see it. Must be quite a sight seeing it in action.

Cheers,
Daz
 

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Top thread, Glen!

Which brings me to a question that I´ve been thinking about for a while:
Which is the preferred aftermarket ECU among you guys that have modded your cars more than the exhaust? I looked at the listings in the technical section and it seems that although the FCon-V is among the favorites there are some other choices.

Does anyone run a Link ECU? I use one in my Impreza, hence the interest...

Can anyone point me to a page where I can read and learn more anout the different ECU´s? Like the APEX´i PFC or Mine´s for example.

All info, greatly appreciated!

Cheers!
/Perra
 

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Thanks and thanks for helping Glen ! I´ve really enjoyed the whole day and learned a lot through the day. You know in Holland it´s raining a lot, but this was absolutely perfect ! The car just loves to drive in the wet, as I do. Thanks also to Tony @ Abbey who arranged a passenger seat for me at the last minute. Next time we'll put up the boost a bit. 0.6 bar (340 ps) proved to be enough to follow a Porsche Supercup car with a glass of whisky in one hand and a cigar in the other... we'll see what 1.4 bar will do.... better strap that laptop to your body !:D :D:smokin:
 

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and the slippers !


i would love to learn how to map ecu s
and have read a little into it but the thust for knowledge is over whelming!
maps is tricky you tweak one area and it adjusts all the others as well .
pratise makes perfect i guess
 

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Mapping

As some of you may know I've been in GTR land for some time now starting with an R32 7 years ago. I have driven alot of GTR with "CHIPS" and can only say that the Power FC / Laptop combination has left my car running so well I can't believe how quick it is sometimes.

I've just got back from a long drive and with the low charge temps saw some silly speeds.

It is truly brilliant and anyone out there even at stage 1, I would say that you could see an extra 25bhp with a power FC set up with a laptop in real time.

Its the dogs..........

Jamie.
 

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Have to say I am relatively surprised at how little mapping goes on, on the Skylines.

Has anyone tried mapping the car themselves, I have a few friends very good at mapping Subarus and although different engines, the principles still remain the same. I think I am going to have a pop at mapping my car when I eventually get a Skyline along with some help of course;)

Has anyone used a Motec, Pectel or any other ECUs other than the Power FC??

SJD
 

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NO OFFENCE GUYS BUT!....

Ask yourself? What do I do for a living? Exactly, none of you have the job title "CAR MAPPER"

Save your self the engine re-build and leave it to the experts unless you are planning on opening a tuning garage. I have seen it done and I know that anyone who does not have the experience WILL **** IT UP!...

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!



JAMIE.
 

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Jamie,
You should never write off or underestimate the unknown.
Some of the enthusiasts of exotic cars are very inteligent and exceedingly capable at almost anything they set their minds to.

I for one have no idea of Scotts abilities but it is well possible for an enthusiastic amateur to match the tuning of any of the top recognized tuners.

It really depends on the amateur and how much time planning and preparation they are prepared to do.

All the top tuners started from nowhere with no knowledge.

For all we know Scott or a friend of his could work for Jordan, McClaren Williams or Prodrive with immense resources available to him.
We could all benefit. Without experimentation there is no development and without development we would not have these cars.
 

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Fair enough, but look what happened when an expert on Japanese cars (GT4's and GTir's etc) tried to fix my inlet manifold air leak. It nearly went bang on the dyno the following week. Mapping my car, no chance. Me.....ha ha.
But it would be interesting to hear Scott's credentials. I think that he does not realise that some members have not even seen the plugs!
 

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Jed im with you on this one, there are some people out there with very good understanding to mechanics/electronics and the like and so you can certainly not rule out a said individuals capability.

As you said everyone started somewhere and all mapping was by hand up until a couple of weeks ago since everyone started raving on about this lap top.

Are you implying that your cars were not mapped properly before they were redone by lap top?

..Ian
 

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I have bugger all credentials, I have 3 friends who are arguably the best Impreza mappers in the UK, one has just finished building a 2.5 450 BHP animal with a spec sheet that would fill a Gig of drive space he is using a Pectel T6 motorsport ECU. Mark if you ever read this sorry the cat is out the bag, at least I was conservative with your BHP figure ;)

Now I myself am just willing to sit with these people and give it a go. My first Venture into Skyline land is going to be relatively inexpensive so frankly, I am prepared to take a few more risks.

I agree that you need a knowledge of the engine, to get things 100%, however as I stated early the principles of mapping are exactly the same no matter the engine.

I am more concerened about the mappers experience with the ECU and knowledge of what to key how much advance to apply at the right time. Now the people I know are experienced with the more exotic ecu's ala Motec. But I am happy in the knowledge that they have in the ECU. One of the guys maps GT 1 cars for the UK GT championships.

If you map a car with det cans and a Dyno then you are very un likely to cause damage if you understand the principles. I will take my time run the engine as richly to be safe ie 12-13% CO and bring it back from the there.

I can get Motec’s realtively cheaply, the software is the best you can get and that makes it easier, so when I get a car I am prepared with the said friends to map myself with their aid a dyno and some det cans, also it shouldn't be to difficult to get a base map for a Skyline from Motec.

I have come from a car culture where knowledge of the engine and mapping is getting to a very professional degree with the enthusiasts and where people are prepared to do things themselves as collectively the community has gained enough knowledge. One of the main people in the UK for Subaru mapping started as an enthusiast he now runs his tuning business at the weekends and is the most in demand ‘IT ISN’T WHAT HE DOES FOR A LIVING’ either ;)

I wasn’t making a post to draw attention to the fact that I am prepared to do this myself I was doing it to see whether or not anyone on this board had experience of mapping themselves and what the knowledge pool was like.

Flame suit on. ;)

SJD
 

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This shouldn't really be the thorny subject this seems to be developing into.

I fitted an Apexi Power FC to my 33 over 2 years ago now (one of the first in the UK I believe) and ran her initially on the base maps which it comes with. Subsequently, I took her to PowerStation for a dyno run and some tweaking of the maps just to eliminate a touch of det. They had never seen or had any experience of the PFC but, as it is so user friendly, they did just that.

Subsequently, I tweaked the maps myself with some minor improvements. I would not have entertained doing this myself if there was no means of checking det., which of course there is with the PFC.

I then loaded a copy of an ignition map which one of our members kindly sent to me from his car which advanced some of my timings by as much as 10 degrees which had immediate and noticeable effect of boosting mid range torque. This map had been done manually using the Commander handset and really did have a good effect on my car's, and no doubt his, driveability.

The benefits of being able to map using a lap top are however enormous IMO as a lay man especially if the s/w does real time diagnostics and data logging. Not only will it speed up the process but it also gives you invaluable access to record all the sensor readings which will allow you to cross reference and see where you've got room to make improvements.

Clearly mapping can be done and will continue to be done successfully manually but the lap top link has got to be the way forward. Abbey are going to be mapping my car soon following my recents mods, can't wait.

I can't comment on other ecu's but the PFC just plugs in to the stock connector and away you go, couldn't be simpler. How easy it to fit others ecu's?

Peter.
 

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Scott J Davies said:
I agree that you need a knowledge of the engine, to get things 100%, however as I stated early the principles of mapping are exactly the same no matter the engine.

I wasn’t making a post to draw attention to the fact that I am prepared to do this myself I was doing it to see whether or not anyone on this board had experience of mapping themselves and what the knowledge pool was like.

Flame suit on. ;)

SJD
Well written Scott! As a future GT-R owner I´m interested in mapping the car myself and I´m also surprised that not more people on this forum are doing it. I´m comparing with the Impreza-owners on Scoobynet, where it feels like A LOT of guys are doing it. That´s also why I was asking in a previous post in this thread if anyone could point me in the right direction to some info regarding the most popular ECU´s that people are using.

I´m (also) running an Impreza, using a Link ECU and although I haven´t mapped it myself from scratch, I do a little bit of fine tuning here and there in the map. It really isn´t THAT difficult.

Maybe my English isn´t that good so sorry if things are coming out the wrong way. Not my intention to offend anyone.

So, back to my original question: Can anyone give me some hints to where I´ll find some info regarding different ECU´s? For example, a site with comparison or maybe a listing of the different functions? All info greatly appreciated!

Cheers!
/Perra

BTW, Scott, do you know Secret Agent Man on Scoobynet? If you do, his a friend of mine. :D :cool:
 

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Pete, exactly the sort of post I was wanting to read. Cool

Powerstation are top fellas.

Like you have found I think there is a tendency with some tuners to go over over safe on maps in order to protect their retpuation. Forums like this give us the buyer alot of power.

I shalln't mention who did my map on my car but is was completely over safe 13 % CO running extremely rich.


Safety is good but not if you don't exploit the full potential of your upgrades.

SJD
 

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fao Ian

All off the shelf chips are not exactly correct as all cars are at different states of wear and tear. This means that even though my car has been mapped recently, it will be done again in a few months to take up small changes that will occur in the pistons ect.

Jamie.
 

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Perra hi Fella

Yep know of SAM, never met him though M8.

The Apexi is very well regarded and I even tried one on my STi but the idling couldn't be sorted so off it came. I think no one has manged it yet on the Scoob.

I woudl place these products in 2 cats:

Chips, not a fan really don't know enough about them on a S line but I'm not a fan Know too many cars to go bang with Chips.

Fully programable ECUS, offering 3d maps, in there you have your Apexis your Greddys and your links. Then your motorsport programmable ecus that have an unbelievable array of functions.

Probable a good Idea is to get your hands on the software for each product you are looking at, I have a copy of the Motec M800 and M48 software the GEMS software and APEXI software mail me offline if you can't them and want to have a look. Oh and I can get the PECTEL software as well.

SJD ;)
 

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I tune my own car , it has an E6K haltech , at the moment I am making @ 550 hp , need bigger injectors now (550cc currently )before I go further. I have had problems with other people tuning my cars , the most widely used one here almost destroyed my engine , and it had less power than before , I only trust myself and only have myself to blame .
 
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