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Discussion Starter #501 (Edited)
No, but strut braces are an interesting thing with Soarers or any car fitted with full front twin-wishbone systems.... only of any use in racing... even then there is a much better alternative to them! [I don't mean roll-cages either!]

The only value to mind in strut braces is when the car has Macpherson struts, then they are a must have.

On cars with high quality multi-link set-ups there is only one benefit from a strut brace and it is never as good as the alternative anyway!!!
 

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I don't have a service manual for my car to hand, do you happen to know what type of suspension the S13 (1989-94) 200sx has ?
 

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Discussion Starter #504
I'm afraid I don't , sorry!

The more 'links' [ie upper and lower wishbones] there are the better job these babies do.

I should think that with the forces produced by 'part-time 4WD as per the Skyline these will make quite a difference.

... and we still haven't got to the real tricksie piece of work yet!
 

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Discussion Starter #505
Perhaps if some of you read the info contained in that link and then read what I have been banging on about making the operation of the suspension 'smoooooooth' you will appreciate how to get the most out of your car for the same money 'wasted' on fripperies and jew-jaws.
 

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Mycroft said:
I have them on the front of my Soarer, they add traction, but are hidden and so have no 'bar-room bragging rights' but they do work rather nicely.
How do they aid traction on the front of a rear wheel drive car?

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #507
Indirectly to the rear by dint of the smoothness of the uncoiling of the spring, breakaway is often a rather 'snappy' affair with some cars, there is a direct correlation between steady progression from grip to varying degrees of slip and smoothness of operation.

The greater benefit though is that weight transfer is also smoothed as you accelerate out of a turn.

Snaking is exacerbated by jerky stiff suspension or tyres or both!

Mine differ from those in the link but I hope the link has provided some food for thought.
 

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How about tender springs? The ones that are lower rate than the main spring and can also be progressive rate. They increase the traction on the wheels that are on the inside of the corner.
 

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Or you can a shock that has a sprung return, so that the default no load position isn't at full extension. This way the suspension assembly doesn't bottom out at max extension, either unsettling the car in a high speed bend, or just adding ride harshness.

I think the new subarus with inverted struts have this, certainly on the forester.

paul
 

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Discussion Starter #513
Sorta, good...

What we are looking at is droop or full extension of the wheel assembly, by reducing droop markedly and making the extension part of the spring/shocker assembly reluctant to go any further you effectively zero out the unsprung weight on that side being lifted, this has the effect of pulling the car closer to the road, it acts like a weighted ARB, by reducing the extension things can change very dramatically indeed.

To check how much droop you have [hahahaha :D:D:D] you merely have to jack up your car and see how much you have to raise the cross-member before the wheels leave the ground.

Most road cars can lose 60mm without too much heart ache providing shocks and springs are dealt with.
 

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Discussion Starter #514
In another thread, I mentioned that that Alfa Romeo used to have a really cheap way of performing a droop change... you'll love this... they used rubber bands... seriously, even on their road cars... just staple a hoop of rubber that has only a small amount of give and adjust it so that the wheels can only drop a certain amount... 'cheap as chips' and astonishingly good at its job!!!

The old GTV 1750 was a fine motor, but it had to be sorted with these bands at the rear on the live axle otherwise the car at the limit would literally flip you off the mountain pass you were descending...

There are way to perform similar tricks on modern cars for little money that are a bit more sophisticated... they don't work any better tho... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #515
OFFSET.

I was hoping to get our Valiant Knight Errant, Lord Simon de Banke to do this but he seems to have either fallen off his horse, sat on his sword, or is still recovering from injuries sustained in our last joust... :D:D:D

Anyways up...

Offset is merely the distance that the centre of the wheel is pushed away from the mounting face of the hub to which you bolt the wheel.

It ONLY effects in any serious way the front steering wheels.

The only effect on the rear is to adjust the track.

Off set is there to provide steering feel and resistance to torque steering.

The whole thing is tied into the Kingpin inclination at 'straight ahead'.

King pin inclination can be seen thus... squat down at the front of your car and draw this shape / \ from the inside of the wheels going up at about 10 degrees from vertical... OK that is king pin inclination, the King pin is what the wheel swivels on to turn.

OK, now as you can see if you look at your car the King pin finishes about 6" from the ground now if you drew your imaginary lines thru the top and bottom swivel axes and down to the ground and then drew another imaginary line thru the centre of the wheel the 2 points would be a certain distance apart... this is the STEERING OFFSET or SCRUB RADIUS, the WHEEL OFFSET effects this and so does the King pin angle, so if you lessen the King pin angle you can lessen the offset!

Simple right?

Wrong!

The STEERING OFFSET or SCRUB RADIUS dictates just how much feel the car has in its steering, dont think that just upping the tyre size and rim size will do this, it won't to any real extent.

So that is why lessening the inclination of the King pin not the complete answer, it is just part of it.

The next bit is that the car now with its revised inclination angle doesn't self centre like it used to, it feels awkward and so that King pin has to be adjusted on the other plane that plane is called the CASTOR ANGLE and this has to be increased slightly, but at the same time you must ADD a little toe in.

It is only after addressing these 4 items... Assistance level, King Pin INCLINATION + CASTOR ANGLE and toe-in... can you succesfully have lower WHEEL OFFSETS
 

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I agree.....

However, you would also need to find Bladerider as their tooing and froing was stuff of legend!!!!

Some huge laughs had over these two...



TT
 
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