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it seems I did upset someone!

I am not in any way associated with the WON company, have never myself purchased their equipment either, but have first hand experience of a few of their kits on families cars.

I can't answer some of your queries as I get headache trying to interpret the
spelling.

No I don't race, have no prizes for racing either, but I do have 2 degrees in engineering and a lifetime experience in the industry.

My primary gripe is simple and still stands, I know folks worldwide who know the WON system, and in my opinion (still) anyone who claims to be familiar with nos to the degree you do, anywhere in the world and doesn't know the WON kit has missed a trick or two. There are hundreds of the kits in use from the USA to Nigeria, only rip van winkle couldn't have heard of it.

My opinions, nothing whatsoever to do with the makers, whom i've never evn spoken to.

Aitch

Excuse my spelling, it wasn't a high priority for me in the reply to you.

In my opinion, for the application the thread starter is talking about, (small shot on a stockish motor, more for fun than anything) a high tech system is not "needed", it may be nice, may be a better kit, may be more tunable or more idiot proof, may be it can give better results in optimum conditions but not 'the only way to go' as you preach.

what is the cost of a WON kit, say a single fogger, 10lb universal efi compared to a usd700 kit from NOS?

My name is not rip van winkle but from time to time I do get called Robbie dog, I root spiders and I do live in a cave similar to what you may have seen in Lord of the rings, you know, the movie made in New Zealand??? do you even know where NZ is? There are more places in the world the the good ol U S of A you know and believe it or not a few people that know a thing or 2 live here.

The point as always, is, each to their own, and if you'd read my initial comments in the context they were written in,:chairshot we wouldn't have to waste each others time on this.:wavey:
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
my intention was only to find out what nos kit ( jettings etc ) would be best for my application without damaging my engine. ( what max hp shots etc without having to worry with timing issues etc )
I have no experience what so ever with nos that's why i aksed these questions.
Did not expect a threat like this.

I hope to get some info that a non nos user like me can understand.
thanks for all the help.

mike.
 

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Aitch and a few others were commenting that in their opinion a WON kit is the best for tunablility, safety etc and that you really should not consider anything else. Maybe you have plenty of money to spend on a 50hp shot for fun, I don't know.

Personally, I have used many simple NOS single fogger wet kits on cars just like yours for guys who want just what you want.

I'm not interested in arguing with Aitch about who can spell, who knows more, who's kit is best etc, and I'm sorry your very simple questions have resulted in your thread ending up as it has.

I will not comment on here, as what I say, may be spelt wrong or be in someone elses opinion incorrect, I do have the info you need, it is free to you and if you want it, contact me and I'll be more than happy to help you.

Also contact Aitch or the company he so strongly supports, get info from them and then you can make an educated choice based on the info and your budget.

Regards Rob
 

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IMHO anyone with more than a share in the family braincell, and not driving a Corsa et al will likely see the benefits of a safer more reliable nos system. I do however realise there are those who as you say might do everything based on price, if you're driving a £500 banger it doesn't matter what you fit.

My whole commitment to the WON product is based on two simple facts, the company took the time and effort, which obviously cost considerable amounts of money, to properly research and develop a better way of doing the job, and unlike most of todays bandwagon riders has a vast and lengthy history with NOS going back many years.

I have never at any time considered whether the WON system has advantages other than safety and reliability. Performance nor installation factors (degrees of difficulty or simplicity) are of no consequence when compared to safety, reliability and longevity.

For those running old scrap heaps or the chav corsa brigade types I could agree there may be a cause for considering the cost and other factors.

However my primary contentions were based on the fact the poster had the sense to buy a decent motor, so why would he want to fit second rate Nos equipment?

And why would he want to take the risk of not being able to insure the vehicle just to save a few pounds? He could in the event anything went wrong lose his whole investment, car and all, that's chav street racer mentality.

I am fortunate in that I possess the education and knowledge to avoid recommending a second rate product, which amongst other things would cause the user to break the terms of his insurance. As I hinted at previously, that may be fine for a corsa driver, you could write it off if it all went pearshaped, not so a Skyline.

Had the question originally been posted by a chav with a banger your argument may have been valid on some points, but not for a Skyline.

We shall have to agree to differ, as we obviously have different perspectives, but to finalise my thoughts for the original poster..

Forget claimed technology benefits, forget performance benefits, forget price even, (and come on there's very little difference really) just answer the two following questions.

1. Would you like a Nos system which is illegal from the perspective that it totally voids your insurance, so you'd have to lie to your insurers?

2. Would you want a system without the above problems?
( which by way of bonus is more reliable than similar products as a result of superior design technology?

Aitch
 

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guys...

its really quite simple if you look at the pasts used in the highpower kits and parts used on other kits...

as i have said highpower are the only company to sell with a lifetime warrenty on their parts because they simply do not go wrong

the solonoids on other kits are not designed for pulsed operation so you cant use a controller, if you do you need to reseat those solonoids at an alarming rate lol (see NOS manual for solonoids...it states a recon is needed for every 5 mins use, you call this a good quality part?)

the lines that are supplied with highpower kits are the minimum you need for that application, this means less phase change and no need for purge, the lines are also the same bore all the way from the bottle to the solonid which again means less phase change

they are the ONLY kits in the UK that are actually insureable which counts for a lot and they sell EU approved bottles unlike the american kits that do not have EU approval....

highpower are the only company that sell a system that can ramp without pulsing (see smooth system)

they are the only company that have a forum for advice moderated by customers and they are the only company that you can call and speak to the guy who designed every part of your kit if the forum does not meet your requirements....how many companys offer that?

highpower have supplied 2000bhp kits for 6 second pro mod cars and 2bhp systems for remote controlled cars, each kit is speced for the application




Refined V's basic










The purple section changing to red is the route through the solenoid and the expansion chamber inside a Pulsoid





The purple section changing to red is the route through the solenoid and the expansion chamber inside generic solenoids

 

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the bottle on the left is a normal cylinder fitted with a burst disc

the bottle on the right has the highpower blow off valve


both bottles are being overfilled at the same time.....

one bottle releases its pressure as pressure increases and then closes as pressure stabilises under its blow off point, the other one just goes bang TBH

lets imagine you left the bottle heater on and you are on the way home, which bottle would you want in the boot?

Putfile - SPRV demo


here is an inside look at the quality of a NOS fogger.....great quality eh??
JUNK FOGGER NOZZLES
 

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I think I understand why this subject still causes arguments, very few people actually understand the differences between the systems available, or their benefits, even many currently using Nos.

I assume that folks will always have excercised due diligence well in advance of giving serious consideration to something as serious as adding Nos. As I do not suffer fools gladly the problem is therefore compounded for me when I percieve what I consider to be ill informed responses.

I think that about covers it..unless you know better?!

Aitch
 

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LOL @ you two.
Just for you information I used a NX based system over the summer about 2 years ago on my R33 RB20E skyline.
I was learning and blew it a couple of times, no problem.
Once I found out the dynamics of using a low-mid powered N2O system I must have put through 50+ bottles 25x 10lb 25x 15lb, at about +85bhp, pulsed! enough extra torque to keep with a stock-ish GTS-t.
WON kits are fine, but jesus leave out the evangelism, other kits and self made stuff works fine if you know what you're doing, in reality it is just not that complicated, just the way the dynamics change makes it 'seem' dificult.
 

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The insurance issue I was not aware of, granted, if WON is the only road legal kit for where he is then it would be wise to go with that.

But, I think you need to 'chill out' a little and accept that it is possible to get good results from other products, there are people who have tuned and raced many cars with 'old school' solinoids with great results, accept that not everything other than WON is absolute crap and also accept that not everyone is an idiot and needs an idiot proof kit that does everything for you.

The won kit may be the best out there, I can't comment on that, but you still havn't given ANY indication to the price of a WON kit for an efi engine wanting about 75-100hp.

You can't say that if you drive anything other than a $500 banger you shouldn't use anything other than WON, thats just absolute rubbish and you know it.

I think a 20 year run of good results with 'crap old school kits' and no failiers is not too bad, your way is not the only way.

End of story.:wavey:
 

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You are of course correct in that there is never ever only one way to do anything, but equally it's correct to say there will always be differences and advantages between equipment. It's this simple set of facts which led me to buy a Skyline instead of a Vauxhall Vectra.

I respect your position, but you also chose to be confrontational in as much as you voiced the opinion that the standard cheap kits were the way to go, which is not true in all cases. As I've said, we are both on diferent sides of the fence, each with different expectations in life, let's agree to differ and move on.

Aitch
 

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Anyone know the make or makes of the kits that are used in the American Drag scene.
 

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I have had a good look round, And from what I can tell most Drag cars are using specially made equipment and not off the shelf kits, And of course no details are available, All very hush hush, I will keep looking, Maybe the lower classes will use off the shelf stuff.

OK, I looked some more, And in the lower classes (I was looking at Pro cars) the company NOS seems to be thrown about a lot...

NOS Nitrous Oxide Systems
 

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Same results as me, I may EMail some of the Race firms and try to get details from them.
 

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LOL @ you two.
Just for you information I used a NX based system over the summer about 2 years ago on my R33 RB20E skyline.
I was learning and blew it a couple of times, no problem.
Once I found out the dynamics of using a low-mid powered N2O system I must have put through 50+ bottles 25x 10lb 25x 15lb, at about +85bhp, pulsed! enough extra torque to keep with a stock-ish GTS-t.
WON kits are fine, but jesus leave out the evangelism, other kits and self made stuff works fine if you know what you're doing, in reality it is just not that complicated, just the way the dynamics change makes it 'seem' dificult.

the NX solonoids seem better at pulsed operation...something to do with noswizards input maybe as he supplied them until recently with progressive parts they rebadged:popcorn:
 

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Same results as me, I may EMail some of the Race firms and try to get details from them.

OutlawRacing.com > MESSAGE FORUMS

http://www.racetested.com/gallery_jbarb.php
i believe this guy has the most powerful system in pro-mod, 3000bhp capable highpower progressive


vids
http://www.eefoof.com/video/7096

http://www.youtube.com/?v=nRnHqVWqSj8

YouTube - Jaguar w/ WON Nitrous vs. Supercars Top Gear TV Episode

YouTube - Twin Engine Mini Cooper

YouTube - Smooth Demo
 

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plenty more infomation if anyone wants it

highpower/noswizard systems, same company

also known as TMC group
 
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