GTR Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
G'day,

Does anyone know the pros and cons of using an early 32 block compared to a 33 block? I've got one of the first off the production line in 89'. I'm really after any info that's comparable but I've heard different things about the crank, oil pressure and conflicting stories about strength...

Is there a difinitive thread or location for this?

Thanks,

KG
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
12,625 Posts
what year did this get sorted?
'94 onwards used the later 33 style cranks

The first 500 production blocks were beefed up so NISSAN could pass the homologation rules, after that they were slowly 'thinned' out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,111 Posts
Mr Warrener's sort of correct. The first blocks certainly had the most metal in them, don't know if it was done specifically for homologation purposes though. It is also true to say that later standard blocks where 'lightened' by using less metal in them, possibly because they found the earlier ones where 'over-engineered' perhaps?

If you are buying a new block then the N1 is a very good option/choice if you want strength. Full strength comes from a RRR of which I think only about 50 have been made. These certainly have additional strengthening/metal in them which possibly means they are the strongest one made, unless someone has gone for a billet variant!

The other advantage of an early 32 block is that it has been 'used', been through a number of heat cycles and therefore 'seasoned'. No guarantee though that it won't crack like they all do!

DaveG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
672 Posts
and does it crack if you sleeve it?? i plan to do this because it cost less than a new block thats what my builder says is its true?? does anyone have sleeved a r32 block and what your experience with this??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
How many people have actually experienced a cracked block that wasnt due to very high boost, detonation or overheating etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,111 Posts
How many people have actually experienced a cracked block that wasnt due to very high boost, detonation or overheating etc.
I think its safe to say no one has ever had a block crack that hasn't been used! ;)

There are particular known (relative) weak spots where you get failure on the block, usually resulting in external water leakage which some owners manage by simply frequently topping up the coolant. It can be high milers, not simply high power ones.

Sleeving. Now that is a completely different question. Material of sleeve, thermal compatibility with cast iron block, thermal expansion with respect to maintaining piston clearance, etc. etc.

Level of power expected and remain reliable?

Sleeve one cylinder or all of them?

Just buy the N1 for heavens sake!

DaveG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,804 Posts
sleeving as been talked about a fair bit and Darton makes an RB26 kit, but I don't recall anyone actually doing it, or needing to.

IMHO a block needs to be sleeved if it's lightweight aluminum. A beefy iron block like the RB26 does well enough on its own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,111 Posts
Not if its on max overbore size Toby and that no longer meets tolerance.........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
672 Posts
my tuner says to me to put sleeve if i want to keep the r32 block because it can crack and its for each piston and i think he says its is made with inconel it will cost half the price of a new block what u think about that?? if that work i think its a good move not you??
 
Joined
·
419 Posts
Liners

We have been linering these blocks for years......no problems....just use basic sound engineering practice and you wont have any problems.
I would be interested to know why Nissan would cast a special "homologation " block of increased thickness. I have a set of homologation papers for a 32 and there are not any specific drawings regarding material thickness.

Keep your eye out for a certain GTST running in the sevens next year with a linered block

Aaaah......so many theorist experts......lol.....dont talk about it ..get out there....do it.....try it.......LOL

Tony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,111 Posts
Well I suppose Tony it all depends what people are happy with, not just what can be made to work.

I certainly would agree with you that I would not imagine Nissan would cast special increased thickness blocks for homologation purposes. However, we all know that manufacturers will seek cost reductions in light of experiences during production runs.

I have no empirical data, but very early blocks seem heavier, which could suggest greater thickness, or less tidy casting, though that does not necessarily mean they are 'stronger' per se'. Again of course they could have changed simply because the initial casting casts became worn, resulting in slight changes to the finished block. But I don't know what cast technology was used so its all presumptive.

The RRR I have is certainly 'different' to a standard block with an implication of increased strength, however that is circumstantial in the absence of empirical proof, which can be difficult to obtain without destructive testing. Having 'tried it', my honest opinion would be anyone looking at a new block would find an N1 more than adequate.

Now, with respect to liners. Of course you would expect best practice from an engineering perspective to be used. Does it work, clearly it has, do I like it? Not especially. Its position of last resort, especially on a high powered engine. But given the choice between no block and a lined one its a no brainer. In material terms, something designed around a cast iron block and associated parameters cannot be the same (as good?) when fitted with a *****. Does that mean it won't work? Of course not. However, it may well be good enough with respect to many applications and therefore deemed acceptable. Down to individual preference and available wallet!

With regard to GTST, I think as an example it demonstrates it can be made to work in an extreme environment, but we already know that from Darton's activities noting that they also add some cross strengthening too I believe. One consideration may be that the GTST doesn't exactly see a lot of road miles does it? Which is the environment most would anticipate to operate in and may present a different set of parameters.

In the end, if you chose to go with a ***** it may well be a sound engineered option but my point was it is not the same as the 'original' and nothing has been shown to demonstrate that it is better. The difference may not matter for you, in which case its the perfect choice. As I said, personally I would go N1.

DaveG
 
Joined
·
419 Posts
dave

I can asure you that it is not a last resort for GTST........neither is fitting liners to a brand new N1 block an economy measure!
What niggles me is that you know I rarelly post on this forum unless I can substantiate what I say........some one asked if any one has ever linered a block.........I have said many......been there done that got the t shirt....and then someone says they dont agree because its not for them!
Obviously HKS with their 2.8 Hi deck and OS with their 3 litre dont agree, they ***** blocks and have done for years.
Why the reference to road mileage on the GTST.....I have never seen a 600 hp road engine split a cylinder because the loading and compression pressures are much less than on a drag engine perhaps running 9.5/1 compression and 3bar of boost.
I have answered the mans question ....end of story....if you dont like it so be it.

Good luck

Tony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Nissan had to replace a number of R34 GTR blocks due to porosity on the outer walls, Middlehursts ha loads of the things around. Sometimes they got repaired by a smear of epoxy on the porous areas if they weren't peeing out water. Sometimes the engine, maybe just the short motor, was replaced under warranty. Presumably a casting problem, maybe core shift, maybe old pattern boxes getting tired? I know it must have cost Nissan a bomb in labour and parts. Volvo had the same problem with early straight six ally blocks in the S and V90 ranges. Keeping to a sensible bore size will help far more than a particular none motorsport block, on any none linered engine. I did have my brand new N1 block sonically tested for core shift. It was OK, but nothing to write home about, I used .5 mm o/size pistons, nothing huge. I'd have run stock bore size but Tomei didn't make the galleried pistons in stock size, and the stock (new from the factory) bores weren't brilliant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
672 Posts
it will cost me 1600$ canadian dollar with instalation and a n1 block cost me around 4000$ that why a want to know more about that
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top