[kismetcapitan]

the "titania" narrowband O2 sensors, are they NGK SG538? while everything is out, I want to replace mine. I was initially planning to run my NTK wideband full time and use the 0-5V analog output to send a signal to the ECU, but I'm not sure if the Power FC for R32 GT-R and the NTK will interpret the voltages in the same way.

So, to be safe, I'll just go OEM. Anyone replace theirs yet?

 

[kismetcapitan]

well, I just ordered a pair of titania NTK 3-wire O2 sensors, 12mm fitment for the Z32. NTK is what was originally used, and I'm guessing/hoping that Nissan would have used the same type of titania O2 sensors on the Fairlady as they did on the Skyline of the same era.

I'll letcha guys know how it goes

 

[tarmac terror]

Please do mate. I'd be interested to know if they fit and function properly

TT

 

[kismetcapitan]

for $60 the pair, I figured it's a fair gamble

 

[T.F.S.]

Just Lambda for UK lambda sensor sales

they list GTR32...very cheap if they work, i have a set here so ill let you know

 

[Beer Baron]

Just Lambda for UK lambda sensor sales

they list GTR32...very cheap if they work, i have a set here so ill let you know

I wouldn't buy that if I were you. I clicked on skyline import, then it says:

"NOTE: This sensor is a Zirconia type that has wire colours White, White, Black. It is not suitable for the Skyline's that have a Titania sensor as original. Titania sensors include a RED wire. "

BNR32 GTR uses Titania type sensors so their cheap zirconia type ones wont work. sorry to dissapoint, but it will save you some $$.

 

[kismetcapitan]

I bought a pair of these:
click

 

[T.F.S.]

I wouldn't buy that if I were you. I clicked on skyline import, then it says:

"NOTE: This sensor is a Zirconia type that has wire colours White, White, Black. It is not suitable for the Skyline's that have a Titania sensor as original. Titania sensors include a RED wire. "

BNR32 GTR uses Titania type sensors so their cheap zirconia type ones wont work. sorry to dissapoint, but it will save you some $$.

yes but my 32 does not have red wires.....actually thinking about it if it is supposed to have them that may explain the fuelling...

 

[T.F.S.]

I wouldn't buy that if I were you. I clicked on skyline import, then it says:

"NOTE: This sensor is a Zirconia type that has wire colours White, White, Black. It is not suitable for the Skyline's that have a Titania sensor as original. Titania sensors include a RED wire. "

BNR32 GTR uses Titania type sensors so their cheap zirconia type ones wont work. sorry to dissapoint, but it will save you some $$.

actually the only difference is the orinetation of the wires but thanks for the input

 

[Aitch]

The problem is actually not that simple..

The R32 in RB20DT/DET & RB25DE form 08/93 to 01/95 use the same lambda as the R33 RB25DE, the original being NGK/NTK 205 OEM, Nissan part number 22690-73L11.

01/95 to 01/96> 22690 - 85TOO

The original Nissan part defies convention in that whilst it appears to be Titania due to the wire colour codes it is in fact Zirconium, wires are white, black & red.

There is however a way to identify the absolute item, as the Titania version has a 12mm fitting whilst the Zirconium has 18mm. Both have the same wiring and both have the same plug/socket fitment!

I have had serious discussions to day with both manufacturers and vendors, none of whom have a clue what they are talking about, or at least not the one's I spoke to. The manufacturers staff in the UK lack any knowledge whatsoever of products originating outside of the UK, and to a man declined to check with or put me in contact with overseas offices. Bosch for example absolutely stated they did not have a unit directly equivalent to the Nissan/NGK/NTK part quoted above, but I see folks selling it for the job, which I dare say it does after a fashion, but I don't run a Micra so it's not good enough until I see it proved good enough.

I do though have an NGK/NKT part on the way, which is said to be an acceptable equvalent and an upgrade..we will see.

I did learn some useful stuff though, thanks to some interesting links provided by manufacturers and one or two vendors. the fact that whilst universals etc may work and get you going, they do not provide optimum running. Apparently (scope graphs provided on the tech sites visited) O2 sensors don't just provide either 0.5 (Titania) or 1v, (Zirconium) they have a characteristic response curve deisgned for specific applications, so the wrong type will not provide totally accurate readings to the ECU.

As for the wires, without checking back and from what I remember (brainstorm time) 3 wire units provide the same functions, but possibly on different wires.

I'm away to read some more, again and agian and again and....


Aitch

 

[T.F.S.]

well i have 18mm larger type sensors working with 32 ecu that is said to use the earlier sensors...only difference is the wires, they are interchangeable

i run wideband and have not seen a dodgy AFR for the past 4 months of good running

 

[Aitch]

I can only post what I have read, what I have seen, what I have been told and what I conclude from that research.

As with anything there are numerous ways to do many things, but only one way will ever be absolutely correct, so depends on what your target is.

Aitch

 

[T.F.S.]

well maybe you can tell me then...

why is it that my car fuels perfectly if i have a sensor that is incompatable with my ECU?

why is it that my wideband reads good fuelling all the way through the rev range if the sensors dont work correctly

there is only one logical conclusion to this and that is that both types and sizes of sensor work on either ECU........but thats what i was told from the start by RB motorsport and he was dead right

 

[Aitch]

As I said previously, there are going to be circumstances where sensors are compatible with pairings not normally specified, it's inevitable, but identifying them is too ambigous, so it's better to stick with the prescription unless you KNOW it's OK.

All we require is that all input to the ECU is correct and allows interpretation to be correctly extrapolated to optimum results, deviating from that is not good sense unless you have specialist knowledge, real specialists will other won't.

Aitch

 

[T.F.S.]

As I said previously, there are going to be circumstances where sensors are compatible with pairings not normally specified, it's inevitable, but identifying them is too ambigous, so it's better to stick with the prescription unless you KNOW it's OK.

All we require is that all input to the ECU is correct and allows interpretation to be correctly extrapolated to optimum results, deviating from that is not good sense unless you have specialist knowledge, real specialists will other won't.

Aitch

yes so what we need is someone who has done this with a certian sensor and recorded the result...which i have done

there is no varation in the ECUs so the sensor i have used will work on ANY 32or 33 GTR regardless of sensor type or size

we know this because i have already done it

 

[Aitch]

I assume the car is modded some way beyond standard, if so what that means is it works in your or any similar scenario, but how well it would work in a standard motor is open to debate. As I said, much depends on what your goals are, we have to consider that Nissan (and all manufacturers) only offer the specific sensors for the various models, some utilise the same unit for a number of models, others don't, and it costs Nissan loads to identify, source and carry such a range, so they hardly do so for nothing.

It's a bit like tyres, all manufacturers recommend certain tyres for the various models, based on suspension and vehicle design, only they know how they came to that decision, so we all use what we think. I can though recall many years ago buying a Renault 16TX, and the dealer advised me that there would be issues with safety / handling and hence insurance if I used tyres other than specific Michelin recommended by Renaults.

There are many instances where anomalies occur in technology applications, but it doesn't mean they should be accepted in all situations for that equipment type. It is infinitely preferable to have a set of rigid parameters for the everyday application and deployment of parts, or it would be crazy out there! If we changed every sensor and similar device on our motors for "similar" units, the compound effect on our motors could be drastic. There would be no "Normal" readings on test equipment anymore due to compound aberrations, so it's the principles as much as the technology which should be generally adhered to.


Aitch

 

[T.F.S.]

makes no difference if the car is standard or modded, what matters is the sensor output

besides mine is stock

 

[Aitch]

That surely cannot be correct, the exhaust flow rates, O2/petroleum element concentrations and temperature must vary with tune and sensor position. I'm sure there would be other considerations were one to study it carefully, reaction times for example. On face value you appear to be stating that there is only a need for one lambda sensor in the world? O2 sensors are not computers, they cannot change their setup according to requirements, they simply provide a predetermined signal shape and form according to a set of hard and fast rules, rules based on gas flow and temperature and O2 content, and those circumstances vary hugely across the range of vehicles on the road. Even the range of operating parameters in our RB25DE are vastly different to the RB25DET etc, and that's a compound factor problem of some magnitude.

The reason there are so many sensor options is because there are so many vehicle variations, which are not confined to visuals and mechanics but include huge variations in exhaust gas flows and temps. A single or very limited range of sensors would all have to operate across a huge bandwidth to accomodate such a scenario, so they'd all cost £500 each!

Aitch

 

[T.F.S.]

i didnt say you can fit any sensor to any car...i said that both types can be used on 32/33...you cant put it in a nova

it does not matter if the car is modded....nobody changes lambda spec when they change the turbo do they?

the position of the sensor isnt that picky either....it would just have a delay

i am using bosch late sensors with early ECU and anyone can do the same regardless of their spec because the sensor i am using is compatable with the ECU and seeing as we all run the same ECU other cars can do the same

 

[juhiss]

Hi

So do i have titania sensor when i have that small 12mm thread ? (-89 32 GTR) I have now HKS Elbows which has bigger thread also. So now i need to know what type of lambda i can use also whit big thread. If its more easy to get or cheaper than nissan original one...

This is old one: