GTR Forum banner

201 - 220 of 230 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #201 · (Edited)
There is another alternative

Garrett GT35R 67mm x 76mm Turbine Upgrade


Custom Turbine Designed For GT35R Ballbearing Cage and Cartridge
Turbine Measurement 67mm x 76mm. This is made from Holset HX40Super turbine wheel and shaft. Would that work?



If not then I have another brand new turbo, build for horsepower. Not sure how the response is going to be. Its a hybrid from HX52/HX55PRO:

Specs:
Compressor: 73in/105ex (custom billet profile, lightweight)
Turbine 86in/77ex 11 blade
Turbine housing I: T4 16cm2 (1,21AR)
Turbine housing II: T4 21cm2 (1,61AR)

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,464 Posts
Hi and thanks for getting back to me. What I mean by 62/62 is that my current spec turbo has

62mm going in (compressor inducer) and 62mm (turbine exducer) is going out. Maybe its wrong for me to explain myself that way but this is the physical aspect. PT turbos do the same I believe.

OD3582 or (HTA82) has its own design compressor wheel that has 62mm/in 82mm Ex. Turbine side is left untouched. The M-spec is more related to durability in certain conditions I believe.

GT3582R (that my current turbo is based on) has 61,4/82 (Max Flow Rate: 70 lb/min) and same turbine wheel as Owen Developments 3582. I know that GT35 cannot match the performance of Owen Developments lightweight HTA***x2122;***xfe0f; Billet Aluminium Compressor Wheel with an advanced aerodynamic profile (copy from their page <img src="http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />, my friends Audi is living proof of that.

I think that Owen development design could be closer to GTX3582 that has 62.5/82,5 compressor side. Garrett rates this turbo to 750hp.

GTX3582 gen II has 66/82 (Max Flow Rate: 82 lb/min), turbine wheel is the same 10 blade 68mm/in 62mm/ex. (rated to 850hp by Garrett)

GTX3584RS is has 67mm/in 84mm/ex on compressor side. Turbine side is the same 68/62 but completely different turbine wheel design with a different profile and 9 blades
I'm unsure why you said all that - not sure whether or not you could tell from what I said but I am very familiar with the specs of all those turbos since I corrected and added to the details you had already provided.

I'll try and make it a bit clearer - if you have a HTA3582 then you do NOT have a 62/62. You have a 59/82. The HTA3582 is not a 62mm inducer turbo, and does not flow as much as a GTX3582R (but is much more responsive). There is a 62mm inducer HTA compressor, it is known as the HTA86 and does flow more like the GTX3582R.

That is why I said all that, from the things you were saying it was hard to tell if you had the 59/82 or the 62/86 HTA series compressor. There is no 62/82 in that series.

The HTA3582 barely flows any more than the old GT3582R, again it just happens to be more responsive and efficient to higher boost levels which was good for Evos (which they were very popular on) but may not have any benefits on an RB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,464 Posts
Hmm just realised autocorrect changed one of my numbers and I can't edit my post from my phone.

Seeing as you are locked on Precision numbering I'll give the HTA/GT35 turbos in Precision names:

GT3582HTA = 5962
GT3586HTA = 6262
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #204 ·
I am quite sure that it's the 62mm inducer compressor, not 59mm. Cannot post a picture with the caliper in it but I did measure it some time ago. Ross sport sells the same turbo under 3582HTA name and you are right it has the HTA86 marking on the compressor cover. Product name is still the same (at least in their website)

The reason, why I posted all this info, was just to have different versions in one post :), to for discussion. I bought this turbo used. It was used couple of laps in this car . Back in the day when I bought it my car was still 2.8L RB26.

I'm unsure why you said all that - not sure whether or not you could tell from what I said but I am very familiar with the specs of all those turbos since I corrected and added to the details you had already provided.

I'll try and make it a bit clearer - if you have a HTA3582 then you do NOT have a 62/62. You have a 59/82. The HTA3582 is not a 62mm inducer turbo, and does not flow as much as a GTX3582R (but is much more responsive). There is a 62mm inducer HTA compressor, it is known as the HTA86 and does flow more like the GTX3582R.

That is why I said all that, from the things you were saying it was hard to tell if you had the 59/82 or the 62/86 HTA series compressor. There is no 62/82 in that series.

The HTA3582 barely flows any more than the old GT3582R, again it just happens to be more responsive and efficient to higher boost levels which was good for Evos (which they were very popular on) but may not have any benefits on an RB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,464 Posts
Between having a 62mm inducer and having HTA86 on the compressor housing it sounds a lot like you ended up with a GT3586HTA...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #206 · (Edited)
I have my own doubts on the turbine side and that's why I brought this whole topic to the table. Yes, I have the biggest hotside (I believe) what you can get for GT35 size turbo but the turbine wheel is still the tiny 62mm..and its the same 62mm in 84RS just different design with 9 blades etc..so it should flow more. I'm sure the compressor side can do 750hp but what about the turbine side.

There is another company

ProchargeTurbochargers who offers also a turbine wheel upgrade for GT35 size turbo. They have 2 options. One is their own design wheel with 9 blades

Between having a 62mm inducer and having HTA86 on the compressor housing it sounds a lot like you ended up with a GT3586HTA...
or the GT3584RS wheel (also 9 blades).


What they are talking about in their post is a Ford Falcon turbo (4.0L barra engine) that is, of course, a different animal but if it can flow 530kw in 4.0L engine maybe it can do the same in 3.0L high revving engine?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,464 Posts
I have my own doubts on the turbine side and that's why I brought this whole topic to the table. Yes, I have the biggest hotside (I believe) what you can get for GT35 size turbo but the turbine wheel is still the tiny 62mm..and its the same 62mm in 84RS just different design with 9 blades etc..so it should flow more. I'm sure the compressor side can do 750hp but what about the turbine side.
I think I said it before, unsure if you missed it or just didn't agree but I will double down - you do NOT have the biggest hotside, from what you've said you've got the ATP 1.06a/r T4 twin scroll housing. It's one which has a larger T4 flange and the 1.06a/r SOUNDS big, but a/r is just a ratio and the volute is not that big. It will choke the exhaust flow earlier WAY earlier than the .86a/r housing you referred to being used on the Audi and other setups, in my opinion. The 1.06a/r ATP housing is one you use for response, not for max flow.

Regardless, my correction if anything is going to validate your concerns - I already know the ATP housing chokes the GT3586HTA, a mate had that exact combination on his RB30 and struggled to get much more than mid 400kw @ hubs on E85 with that. He ended up pulling that off and putting on a Borg Warner S366 and lost a lot of response but made WAY more power pound for pound.

In regards to changing turbines etc, I can't comment on those other options you are looking at as I know nothing about them - it's worth knowing that just going by "mm" sizes is not a be-all way of determining how they will flow. The new Garrett G35 series turbos which should hopefully be out by 2020 are still a 62mm turbo and the exhaust side flows HEAPS, like way more than the old GT35 one does. It's worth noting also that the GTX3584RS has 1.01 and 1.22a/r options for when big flow requirements are the order. Not all turbines are equal, even when the size measurements seem that way.

Now you mentioned the Holset turbo, a mate is literally TODAY tuning his R32 GT-R running a built RB26 (stock displacement) with a custom Holset 72mm turbo based more or less on a HX52/55 platform with a 16cm T4 divided housing on E85, I should be able to update on how that performs later today - all going well if that's of interest?

Anyway, with that all out of the way... something I should have asked earlier and really it's what you should be making clear if you are asking for advice, what actually are your power targets? What fuel will you be running and what is the "worst" lag you'd be content living with? That will help get a picture of where the discussion should actually be going :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #208 ·
Well,

Previously I had some (i think, cause there were no markings when it came from Japan) Apexi AX75F82 turbo (T3 single scroll) mounted on GReddy T4 twin-scroll manifold and HKS step 2. The car made little over 600hp with this setup at 1.3 bar (did not make any power above that). I believe the turbo was on its last days then when we removed it (after an engine broke down) it had a pretty decent shaft play etc. This setup made only good midrange power. I was able to clock high 11's on the 1/4 mile but trap speed was below 180kmh. So my goal is to have something better than that, a good responsive setup that is safe.

When my last engine broke down I took some time off, so the build has been going on and off for the past 3-4 years :). The bottom end is now 3.0 with spools internals in it. The exhaust manifold has a lot smaller runners compare to Greddy manifold I had previously. When I ended up with this HTA86 I thought, what the hell, let's pair it with Twin-Scroll housing to have nice responsive setup. As my T4 exhaust manifold was already ordered and so was the other Holset I had, I went with ATP 1.06 housing as I did not know any other maker for this turbo at the time. I went through several videos, trying to find out it this setup would work. In motive DVD they use 1.01 T3 Twin scroll on 2.6L engine and this is getting them to over 400kw at the wheels with E85. I thought if I would get an engine that has a similar response and makes maybe 450-500kw I would be very happy. Car is a full streetcar, that sees some track days and some top speed events. The Holset is for those special events.

Anyway, with that all out of the way... something I should have asked earlier and really it's what you should be making clear if you are asking for advice, what actually are your power targets? What fuel will you be running and what is the "worst" lag you'd be content living with? That will help get a picture of where the discussion should actually be going :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #209 ·
That's a coincidence :). I am very interested to see how this will come out.

Now you mentioned the Holset turbo, a mate is literally TODAY tuning his R32 GT-R running a built RB26 (stock displacement) with a custom Holset 72mm turbo based more or less on a HX52/55 platform with a 16cm T4 divided housing on E85, I should be able to update on how that performs later today - all going well if that's of interest?
Couple of comparison pictures of the Holset 16cm2 T4 vs ATP T4










86/77mm turbine wheel in the 16cm2 housing looks very different.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,464 Posts
I was able to clock high 11's on the 1/4 mile but trap speed was below 180kmh. So my goal is to have something better than that, a good responsive setup that is safe.

In motive DVD they use 1.01 T3 Twin scroll on 2.6L engine and this is getting them to over 400kw at the wheels with E85. I thought if I would get an engine that has a similar response and makes maybe 450-500kw I would be very happy. Car is a full streetcar, that sees some track days and some top speed events. The Holset is for those special events.
OK that paints a general picture :) So you will be running E85?

For what it's worth, the genuine Garrett 1.01 T3 divided housing flows more than the ATP 1.06a/r T4 divided housing - it's hard to know exactly how they compare though. So you will swap turbos for different events? If so, the HTA86 may be worth just keeping and have the "responsive 450-500kw turbo" and the "high speed run turbo".

That's a coincidence :). I am very interested to see how this will come out.
OK it's worth knowing that this turbo is a custom job based off a Holset base but a trick bearing core and billet 72mm compressor etc. It hit 30psi just after 5000rpm on the 2.6litre and was at 625awkw on E85 on a hub dyno before the car started running out of fuel system. The turbo DEFINITELY still has more in it.

That particular turbo would probably be quite fun/usable on a 3litre and make quite a lot of power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #211 ·
OK it's worth knowing that this turbo is a custom job based off a Holset base but a trick bearing core and billet 72mm compressor etc. It hit 30psi just after 5000rpm on the 2.6litre and was at 625awkw on E85 on a hub dyno before the car started running out of fuel system. The turbo DEFINITELY still has more in it.

That particular turbo would probably be quite fun/usable on a 3litre and make quite a lot of power.
I have ethanol sensor placed in the car but not sure If I'm going to use it HKS F-CON. I have EGT and knock link installed, so I'm not sure if I have some analogue inputs left. The other thing is that despite the Injector calculators, I think my Injectors will be too small to outrun the big turbo anyways. My current Injectors have the total flow is between 1220 - 1280 cc/ min / 3 bar. Nominal flow rates: 3 bar/ 1245cc, 4 bar/ 1435cc, 5 bar/ 1615cc.



I have made a special flange to use 2 different turbos. The ATP hotside is way smaller and would place the turbo in a different position towards the downpipe. But coming back tot he hotside, it would be possible to change with help of an adapter. There are plenty adapters out there that can convert T4 turbine housing to T3 but not the other way around :) but because of my current flange in place its possible and I could work it out with current downpipe position.

In some forum post I found that Garrett new 9 blade wheel can flow 17% more than the previous, of course, its not a proven fact. So maybe the right way to do things here is to test the current setup, then change the turbine wheel, and if it still won't work, change the hotside. Maybe changing the turbine wheel will allow more gasses to pass through and I can save myself from all the hassle of getting new hotside, flange etc. IF it does not work I can benefit from better flowing turbine wheel + housing.

That Holset result - 625awkw is a lot, that's little over 1000HP on crnak right? on 3.0 l motor, the 30 PSI would come earlier
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #213 ·
Couple of more shots from almost finished product.

Thats Volvo's key inside 16cm2 turbine housing :)


Sent from my SNE-LX1 using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Looking lovely Audiophile! That turbo, bloody hell, I reckon I could fit one of my R1 turbos inside it! Lol :chuckle: Oh, and not jealous of the 400R bumper at all. :p Is it a genuine Nismo item?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #216 ·
Looking lovely Audiophile! That turbo, bloody hell, I reckon I could fit one of my R1 turbos inside it! Lol :chuckle: Oh, and not jealous of the 400R bumper at all. Is it a genuine Nismo item?
Hahaaa thanks bro.. The car came with this bumper from Japan. It has some nismo stickers on it in the inner part. But i dunno if its genuine or not. It fits perfectly so id like to think its a genuine item. Car also has 400r steering rack that has quicker ratio.. was there also when it arriwed. Whoever was the previous owner for sure spend a fortune on it

Sent from my SNE-LX1 using Tapatalk
 
201 - 220 of 230 Posts
Top