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Discussion Starter #1
We (Abbott Racing) have a couple of people interested in mounting RB series motors on our Superflow SF-1 Static engine Dynamometer. This needless to say is quite a time consuming and expensive process as engine mountings, drive couplings, fuel/water/oil systems need to be made to suit it etc

In order to lower the development costs, are any of the more seriously tuned guys here intersted in perhaps splitting the costs of the development (roughly around £4000) with a view to getting some dyno time for themselves?

Cheers,

Dan
 

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WHY

Dont want to jump on your thread but why go to all that expense,
just call me I have the gear available all sorted £350 per hr, just need to book in advance
regards
Gary
GT-ART
 

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Gulp...

Gee Gary

Without trying or wanting to offend you, it doesn't sound like you offer a good, realistic deal there. Especially if I tell you that I would be able to offer it for less, and without doing anything myself I'd still be able to make money..

Andre.
 

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RR vs dyno

O, Gary, another question. What do you think of dyno's versus rolling roads ? I think you are using the rolling road yourself to tune your car ? Or do you use them both ?
And while we're on the subject, what do you think of these Dynapack "dyno's" ?

Also would be interesting to know what the dyno you offer features in terms of controllable fuel/oil/coolant/air temp and knock detection.

Andre.
 

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gulp

andre,
sorry mate did you choke on your beer:D
The price may be high but its not my dyno its Janspeeds and the price includes a dyno operator, I thought 350 per hr was cheaper than 4000 grand but correct me if I am wrong as it includes all the set up cost etc,
I can only speak as I see but the dyno cell has recurculating fuel system with varying flow and temperature control,
the cells air is changed with about 6 very large fans I dont know how much per second but can asure you enough.
the engines cooling is carried out by passing cooling medium through I think an 800 gallon over head tank but the water is constantly changed and fed from the main water supply and leaked off, the engines water pump is used,
the intercooler \ air charge temperature is also controlled using an air to air intercooler in a different way,of which I can not disscus as I would need janspeeds permission,
oil is from the sump fed throgh an oil cooler system,
Knock detection, this is simply done with det cans attached to the engine, and with pressure measuring spark plug washers running through an ocsilliscope, there are probably other methods but they are not disclosed to me,
there are also lots of other measurements made, every temp and parameter you would wish to measure so 350 aint that bad really when you think of it.
Regarding my veiws on rolling roads vs engine dynos really you can use both tools but they will give different results, they are for different types of tuning, ie you cant measure accelerating mass of a vehicle on a static dyno, but you could set up an engine to record max power figures at varying rpms,and throttle positions, and have the ease of making major changes to that engine in situ so it saves time,
once finished on the static dyno you can then progress to the rolling road or track for the finishing touches however.
Rolling roads are also a good tool and regardless of make they all allow you to see a number and that is what you are tuning for the largest number of power and torque at what ever speed event and that is all that matters at the end of the day all it needs to be is repeatable time after time whilst tuning.
I use neither method but if I had a 4 wheel drive dyno I would use it but still do it the way I do it now aswell, and that is by the seat of my pants with a co driver, this gives me the ability to get the feel for the vehicle, I cant say that I am right every time but I get damm close, my method is long winded but it gives fun when finished,and is carried out in the REAL enviroment, on all the dyno events I have put my car into I have NEVER spent the day before or any day setting it up on a dyno and to this date have NEVER been beaten on a dyno day that I have attended with power or torque,
I hope you find this interesting,
give me a dyno pac and I will tell you:D seriously though looks a very nice peice of kit
Gary
G***T
 

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Beer ?

Heck no, Liptonice Light. Getting rid of some excess weight; cheaper than carbon fibre ;) :D
Mathematically speaking, 350 is indeed less than 4000; euro or pound. However, the 4000 are NRE costs; if you want to compare that against the 350 you would have to know the hr rate @ Abbott. If that were to be say 50 quid, you'd have to spend 13 1/3 hour to reach break even.
By the looks of it, Janspeed seem to have good measuring capabilities. And you my friend, seem to have a sensitive a** (aka behind) :p ;) :D . No, I won't mention Dirky in this perspective ;)
Anyway, thanks for your views !

Andre.
 

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Columbo ?

Almost past the door; turn back and ask Gary: does the 350 include your mapping services as well ? Or does Janspeed do the dirty work ;)
 

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hey columbo

Just before you reached that door, I will tell you, no I do my own mapping, also I put per hr dident I sos per day was what it should have been
how your motec
Gary
G***T
 

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Now who's on some heavy beer here then ?

That's more like it Gary :smokin:
Columbo did it again :smokin: :D ;)

MoTeC is getting somewhere now. Got the gear working in the lab; working on sensor calibration & stuff. No more AFM's. Knock sensing also provided for. Cool stuff :smokin:

A***e
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: BECAUSE...

gary said:
Dont want to jump on your thread but why go to all that expense,
just call me I have the gear available all sorted £350 per hr, just need to book in advance
regards
Gary
GT-ART
I believe the people in question have already considered and dismissed the rolling road method, for race engine development we found it desireable to have a totally temperature controllable environment in which to run, so we can knock the intake temps up and down at high speed and with great accuracy etc.

We regard the static dyno as "the real deal", none of this tractive power and wheel power garbage ;) Just pure power output at the flywheel.

They use static dynos for F1 development, so we figure its good enough for Skyline purposes.

I believe that rolling roads and static dynos can live happily in co-existence, as one of them is for measuring the power you put down, and the other is a development tool for measuing how much power you have direct from your engine, no transmission losses included etc...

Generally speaking the rolling road is the way to go for most tuning work, but the people interested in using the static dyno are all interested in the more "controlled" method ;)

I dont think you can even really draw a comparison between the two methods.

Cheers,
Dan
 
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DYNO/ROLLING ROADS

andre,gary,dan

the dynapack is not a rolling road it is a chassis dynomometer.
the loading is supplied by hydraulics and is variable infinity.
We at ABBEY looked at all the rolling roads/dyno avaiable and come to the conculsion that the www.dynapack.com is the best of both worlds.
You have total control over the vehicle , those who were there on sunday at trax would have seen me mucking around with Glens R34 550+ bhp ,You find me a tyre driven/controlled rolling road that would do the following

set engine rpm to 6000 rpm [measured 450 + bhp] hold
for 2 secs to let engine settle then reduce engine rpm in 100
rpm increments , just like you could do on a engine dyno,
all the way down to 5000rpm.

The dynapack is extensive used in Japan, Nismo have 2 , all the NASCAR teams in the USA have 1 or 2.

We have heavily invested in the cooling side in the dyno ,We
have 2 x 27500 metres cubic fans , also same fans to remove the heated air, seperate exhaust extraction system , and cooling air pulled from the outside i.e not recirculated. The dyno room is fully sound proofed.

All ABBEY customers will get a free run when there cars are
in for service etc. Prices for dyno can be discussed over the
phone as I feel it takes up valuable bandwidth.


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Mark,

Had we known about the DynaPack when we installed our Dyno back in 1997 we would probably be using it instead of the Superflow... But we have now invested our cash and have to make use of what we have.

Ultimately a static dyno still gives a pure flywheel figure, without the partial unknowns of a guesstimated transmission loss percentage, this was exactly what we wanted from our Dyno - I guess its horses for courses, our race engine is easy to remove from the car and so it was no great effort to get it onto the dyno, but for road work obviously removing the engine is a bit of an overkill when something like DynaPack is available.

DynaPack looks very impressive I must say, and a perfect mix of rolling road/static dyno - perfect for road tuning work.

Cheers,
Dan
 

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something interesting that I saw set up locally was a engine on a frame that used a diff to bolt up to 2 dynapack units , very simple to do and very effective .
 
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Dynapack

Brenhan,

how are you long time no speak.

Is your car ready for the 25th of october , I presume this is your first drag meeting of the year, Hope to be in NZ for that meeting so You can introduce me to Recce and all the skyline drag boy,s.
You have let my idea out of the bag we are having a
frame drawn up to make the dynapack into a engine dyno, we are using a one off gearbox to drop the engine spped to the correct speed so we only have to use 1 dynapack.

speak to you soon.

mark
 

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Re: Dynapack

Abbey M/S said:
You have let my idea out of the bag we are having a
frame drawn up to make the dynapack into a engine dyno, we are using a one off gearbox to drop the engine spped to the correct speed so we only have to use 1 dynapack.
mark
Hi Mark,

How much can each pack handle then? A lot by the sound of it!

Peter.
 

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Power absorption

That would be 600, 900, 1200 or 1600 kW (800, 1200, 1600, 2200 HP) according to the product specs, depending on model. Divide that by 4 and you have the figure. If I'm right, Abbey M/S will have the capability to go up to 400 kW (550 HP) with one unit if they have the most powerful model. So, Mark, why not use two with a torque splitter in between ?

Andre.
 

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Yep, looks like it I should think for the 5000 series. That wouldn't quite be enough for the RB26 engine, would it.:(

Try this link btw. I typed it in by mistake; certainly isn't what Abbey have I hope ;) :D
 
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