[FRRACER]

Having seen a few videos now I guess of OS Giken and Hollinger? I am somewhat surprised that in an age where clutch less down change is the norm, these boxes still require use of the clutch.

I guess if you go for a geartronics or similar closed loop sequential control system you would not need to use the clutch at all apart from taking drive.

From a driving point of view it just seems clumsy not to be able to left foot brake at the same time wonder if it is worth having a semi sequential box at all.

 

[drewzer]

From a driving point of view it just seems clumsy not to be able to left foot brake at the same time wonder if it is worth having a semi sequential box at all.

That's that "heel n toe" is for.

 

[ANDY H]

my os box was excellent on the track not using the clutch up or down the box! i was heel and toeing!
but on the road it was a must to use the clutch!!
it was a road speed thing!

 

[matt j]

Holinger and Shiftec in my 33, clutch into first or reverse, all other changes up and down are clutchless and timed at 70-100ms full load.

 

[FRRACER]

That's that "heel n toe" is for.

You are missing the point mate, the whole point of a fully sequential gearbox is to take away the need for heel and toe.

 

[TAZZMAXX]

You are missing the point mate, the whole point of a fully sequential gearbox is to take away the need for heel and toe.

If you had the capability for full power up and down shifts would you still have a stick or just go to paddles? Once you have the control for downshift rev matching you would also have facility to do away with the stick. How far do you want to go?

 

[matt j]

If you had the capability for full power up and down shifts would you still have a stick or just go to paddles?

For a basic set up you need both Tazz.

Once you have the control for downshift rev matching you would also have facility to do away with the stick. How far do you want to go?

If you want to take it further than just Closed Loop control of the gear changes then AP Racing do the automated clutch control to make the car 2 pedal. You could then have a semi manual set up like the R35. Whilst that would be ok for the OSG box, the Holinger reverse gear is not in line so would need another piston or lever to engage reverse. All doable but like you said, how far do you go, especially on a 15 year old car?

 

[matt j]

Having seen a few videos now I guess of OS Giken and Hollinger? I am somewhat surprised that in an age where clutch less down change is the norm, these boxes still require use of the clutch.

The new Holinger GTR sequential can be purchased with a paddle shift system with the piston installed internally instead of externally like mine. As far as I've seen, you'd still need the (or a) lever for reverse and there's no mention of clutch control either so I presume they haven't designed anything yet.

 

[FRRACER]

If you had the capability for full power up and down shifts would you still have a stick or just go to paddles? Once you have the control for downshift rev matching you would also have facility to do away with the stick. How far do you want to go?

I don't mind stick or paddles I have driven both in a car with a proper gearbox control and never used the clutch on up shifts or down shifts, to me why have a half solution? Just does not make any sense. I have also driven non syncro/dog boxes and had to heel and toe. A full sequential is much better allows you to fully focus on driving and paddles more so.

 

[matt j]

This is a short video of mine being setup on the dyno, the system is fully integrated with the MoTeC ECU and digital dash.

Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R Holinger Sequential Paddle Shift - YouTube

 

[tarmac terror]

If you want to take it further than just Closed Loop control of the gear changes then AP Racing do the automated clutch control to make the car 2 pedal. QUOTE]

This/\ /\

Shiftec also do a module which offers clutch control. Ultimately, this is something I fancy pursuing as my old E46 SMG M3 has made me a 2-pedal, semi-auto convert.

I agree with the comments that, if you've converted to sequential, WHY would you not go down the 2-pedal route. I accept that some boxes might not be suitable for this but if you have one that IS, then you're missing out (IMHO).

TT

 

[matt j]

TT, Shiftec make the clutch unit for AP Racing, it's the same unit but when I last looked, it's about £4k!

 

[tarmac terror]

Indeed...

It aint cheap but when you consider a sequential box, gear position sensor, paddles and the other accoutrements equals a fair few bob then £4k is sweetie money

TT

 

[matt j]

Indeed...

It aint cheap but when you consider a sequential box, gear position sensor, paddles and the other accoutrements equals a fair few bob then £4k is sweetie money

TT

Holinger GTR sequential - £16k? (Comes with gear position sensor and indicator)
Shiftec system - £7k plus ancillaries and installation
Shiftec clutch control - £4k
System mapping and setup - £500

£4k seems a lot just to save a little exercise on the left leg for 1st and reverse

 

[Chris_Gojira]

Don't want to hijack your topic but, i've been looking for information about these gearboxes as well.

My main concern is that the Atessa system will stay in place so 4WD can still be used.
And then also, i'd like to go with minimal clutch usage...

Don't know about prices, or normal mileage before it needs a rebuild but i think it's to expensive, even for regular track use to go sequential

 

[matt j]

Don't want to hijack your topic but, i've been looking for information about these gearboxes as well.

What information do you want?

My main concern is that the Atessa system will stay in place so 4WD can still be used.
And then also, i'd like to go with minimal clutch usage...

It's a gearbox replacement, it doesn't affect your 4WD if you swap the standard box to an OSG or Holinger, they are designs specifically for the 32/33/34 GTR.
Both can be operated manually, flat shift or paddle shift and if funds allow, fully convertd to 2 pedal.

Don't know about prices, or normal mileage before it needs a rebuild but i think it's to expensive, even for regular track use to go sequential

If you buy an OSG and use it without closed loop control, expect to service and replace parts in it regularly. The Holinger is a whole different kettle of fish and a lot stronger but then it's straight cut and not helical gears. My advice is stay away from OSG, too unreliable and break easily.
Second hand prices are strong, you're looking at £5-7k for an OSG and £8-12k for a Holinger from what I've seen. A closed loop control system can be bought new for around £4-£8k but if you shop around and know where to look, I bought my Shiftec complete system for £1800.

 

[FRRACER]

Don't want to hijack your topic but, i've been looking for information about these gearboxes as well.

My main concern is that the Atessa system will stay in place so 4WD can still be used.
And then also, i'd like to go with minimal clutch usage...

Don't know about prices, or normal mileage before it needs a rebuild but i think it's to expensive, even for regular track use to go sequential

You will be looking at 20k plus for a gearbox and fully automated setup, it will not be cheap but anything for motorsport use is never going to be.

 

[FRRACER]

Matt would be keen to see how you get on with your gearbox on track, seems like your system is the way to go.

 

[matt j]

The system works very well on the road but my main use is drag and top speed - don't see why it wouldn't be just as at home on the track though.

The primary reason I went for closed loop control is I want to prolong the life of the box as much as possible. A closed loop system is much better for the box than being manhandled by me. The added benefit being the system can change gear far quicker than I can and it's a lot faster than the R35 gear changes.

 

[ATCO]

I use Proshift S3 on the Trust/Quaife sequential in Garage Bomber. Clutch used for launch then flatshift every gear. Its damned quick. Also have 'blipper' fitted for downshifts.

You can pre-programme up and down shift rev points so it does it automatic, plus switch between 'dry' and 'wet' condition setup.

Seems to cover most issues for track use. If inclined once rolling just switching between 100TPS and standing on brakes, concentrate on corner lines and let system handle gear changes.

DaveG

EDIT: Forgot to say, it has a signal to notify ECU to do fuel/ignition cut on shifts. It reads the gear position sensor so only enables power on when confirmed gear home. You can also add a 'if all else fails, after 2 seconds power engine again no matter gear sensor says'.