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I hate the roofline of the R35 and literally nothing seems to fix it. Not even the fancy R50 concept helps it out
I really like the roofline (especially the rear pillars) and think its one of the best style bits on the R35, along with the bonnet and the flared front wings.
 

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Discussion Starter #62

I really doubt the R34 was slower than the R33. Aero was comparable, the R33 didn't have the front/rear diffuser of the R34 which reduced drag. Maybe the tall final drive didn't help at 3.545 but the RB26 is kind of a dog below ~4000 RPM, the getrag 6 speed helps to keep it in the powerband. The R34 is actually true zero/negative lift in the front end whereas the stock R33 is just near zero front lift. The R33 also doesn't have a lot of the chassis reinforcements that the R34 got.

The R33 is theoretically capable of matching an R34 if you retrofit all of the R34 bits but that's theoretical, not a production car. Finding a Getrag V160 these days is difficult and they're quite expensive as well.
Well joshuaho96....Back when Evo magazine was a very good automotive read, The October 1999 issue wrote this about the brand spanking new BNR34 :-



With the relevant bit of the article from that time being :-




The Nürburgring still featured heavily in the development of the R34 but Nissan admits the R33 is quicker over a Lap.
Outright pace was not the objective.


"You can steer this car (R34) more on the throttle, So its even more fun"
Fun it maybe, But faster (possibly due to its even heavier weight?!)...Apparently not. Long live the BCNR33!:giggle:



HTH!
 

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Er, the 300km speedo was fitted to the V-Spec II's from factory.
The Nismo variant my V-Spec (NOT II) has is 320kph and was installed as a factory option instead of the factory 180kph speedo.

Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't out there. :)
The 34 was NOT the fastest RB GT-R - the 33 was more aerodynamic as I've previously stated and didn't have its time recorded because it was allegedly slower than the 33.

The 34 is more rigid compared to the 33 BUT this is true from the 32 to 33 as well, with reported figures stating that the 33 is 100% more rigid than the 32.
In fact, the biggest advantage the 34 did have was in the gearbox department as the six speed allow you to better control rpm through cornering.

All up this is an argument that boils down to personal taste - to me I love my 34 and will happily say that whilst it's not as fast as a lot of 35's out there, it still makes me smile when i see it and drive it and that can't happen with it's younger but fuglier, fatter little brother. ;)

PS: I hate the roofline of the R35 and literally nothing seems to fix it. Not even the fancy R50 concept helps it out.
The R33 did not receive a 300 kph speedo like the one seen in the best motoring video, I've never seen it outside of the prototype that they used for the nurburgring. Maybe someone will dig up this cluster on yahoo auctions or something?

I'm aware of the Nur variants with 300 kph cluster but that was R34 only.

Well joshuaho96....Back when Evo magazine was a very good automotive read, The October 1999 issue wrote this about the brand spanking new BNR34 :-

With the relevant bit of the article from that time being :-





Outright pace was not the objective.

Fun it maybe, But faster (possibly due to its even heavier weight?!)...Apparently not. Long live the BCNR33!:giggle:

HTH!
I remain skeptical that the R34 was actually slower. Boost went up from 0.85 bar to 1 bar and the chassis got a little stiffer and aero a little better. Transmission got better as well. These are little things here and there.

I prefer the R33 btw, but I think it's important to be realistic about what these cars are. The R33 concept was really what Nissan should've shipped, a 500+ hp engine would've been completely insane for the 90s.
 

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Discussion Starter #64

The R33 did not receive a 300 kph speedo like the one seen in the best motoring video, I've never seen it outside of the prototype that they used for the nurburgring. Maybe someone will dig up this cluster on yahoo auctions or something?

I'm aware of the Nur variants with 300 kph cluster but that was R34 only.
Nope, No polite way to put this but you are wrong joshuaho96.....



300kph Speedo Clusters were common in Japan especially in GTS-t's because the majority of BCNR33's with uprated Nismo Clusters had 320kph versions for their GT-R's instead!


Also Mines, Do-Luck, Tomei, etc, etc, etc all had their own versions of a 300kph & 320kph Clocks for sale for all models of the R33 Skylines with Vielside offering a quite insane 360kmh item for the ultimate performance connoisseur :-


HTH! :)
 

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Nope, No polite way to put this but you are wrong joshuaho96.....



300kph Speedo Clusters were common in Japan especially in GTS-t's because the majority of BCNR33's with uprated Nismo Clusters had 320kph versions for their GT-R's instead!


Also Mines, Do-Luck, Tomei, etc, etc, etc all had their own versions of a 300kph & 320kph Clocks for sale for all models of the R33 Skylines with Vielside offering a quite insane 360kmh item for the ultimate performance connoisseur :-


HTH! :)
I think some wires are crossed here, I'm referring specifically to this 300 kph cluster that I have not seen anywhere else:
257592


This cluster I've only seen in the Best Motoring R33 nurburgring attempt + Aki's photos of the car that set the 7:59 time. There are other versions but usually branded with whatever tuner made it and often different font.
 

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Discussion Starter #66

I think some wires are crossed here, I'm referring specifically to this 300 kph cluster that I have not seen anywhere else: View attachment 257592

This cluster I've only seen in the Best Motoring R33 nurburgring attempt + Aki's photos of the car that set the 7:59 time. There are other versions but usually branded with whatever tuner made it and often different font.
The Cluster used on that car ultimately became the UKDM BCNR33 Clocks but was switched around to have MPH around the Outside and KM/H on the inside.



Was available with both white and black faces on at least 120 vehicles here in the UK.

HTH!
 

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Discussion Starter #67

There are other versions but usually branded with whatever tuner made it and often different font.
The more and more I look at Aki's photo, Those Clocks just look like the Factory Impul ones to me....



I've not seen this car in the flesh, So cannot say if these are the Nissan-Impul Clusters fitted to that car.



Still not exactly special IMHO!
 

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The point is more that the car that set the 7:59 time is likely similar in spec to what Kurosawa drove. It would be a strange coincidence for both of them to have been driving a car with a somewhat unique 300 km/h cluster with no identifying marks. So the 8:01 time he set was likely not done with a stock R33 GT-R VSpec.
 

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I think irrespective of the differences between the R33 and R34 times around the Nordschleife, which appears to be a few seconds from previous posts.......

As the Nordschliefe is about 13 miles long and the R35 clocked the following times:

7:26.70/(7:29:03 and 7:38) – 2009 GT-R/(Stock)

7:24.22/(7:34 and 7:36) – 2011 GT-R/(Stock)

7:19.01s - 2012 GT-R

7:08.69s - 2015 GT-R Nismo

This would mean even the R33 would finish at least a mile behind the R35 (assuming the R33 did it in 8:01........... sobering thought :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter #70

The point is more that the car that set the 7:59 time is likely similar in spec to what Kurosawa drove. It would be a strange coincidence for both of them to have been driving a car with a somewhat unique 300 km/h cluster with no identifying marks. So the 8:01 time he set was likely not done with a stock R33 GT-R VSpec.
Ok then joshuaho96, Lets take the World famous Ring out of the equation then shall we! Have you ever heard about JARI...The Japan version of Millbrook's Vehicle Test Facility?


Once again this snippet of Motoring Journalism was taken from an April 1999 Evo magazine....



Exactly when these Skyline's were brand new and :-



All right, How Fast? Authoritative test figures from Japan's "Car Graphic Magazine" taken at JARI (Japan's Millbrook) reveal the good - and bad - news. Bad news first. Testing V-Spec editions of R33 and R34, old car proved quicker from 0-60mph (4.3secs plays 4.7) and from 0-400meters, too (12.7secs plays 13.1).
Don't tell me...DON'T tell me, You still remain skeptical that the BNR34 could actually be slower in some cases than the older wobblier BCNR33.....:giggle:

In this modern flakey NPC "Reeeee" Culture/Society, Who needs Facts eh?! Personal opinions render everyone's factual discussion as moot.

JM2PW....
 

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Ok then joshuaho96, Lets take the World famous Ring out of the equation then shall we! Have you ever heard about JARI...The Japan version of Millbrook's Vehicle Test Facility?


Once again this snippet of Motoring Journalism was taken from an April 1999 Evo magazine....



Exactly when these Skyline's were brand new and :-





Don't tell me...DON'T tell me, You still remain skeptical that the BNR34 could actually be slower in some cases than the older wobblier BCNR33.....:giggle:

In this modern flakey NPC "Reeeee" Culture/Society, Who needs Facts eh?! Personal opinions render everyone's factual discussion as moot.

JM2PW....

Best Motoring's testing claims the R33 is slower than the R34 for the quarter mile. This is really not about "personal opinion". It literally would not make sense for an R34 to be slower than an R33 in a straight line considering that it has 6 closer ratios and the engine is running 1 bar of boost vs 0.85 bar in the R33. The 3.545 final drive slightly alters the calculus but the gear ratios of the V160 are different, in practice the 6 speed has shorter gearing in the first five gears and a longer 6th. Both hit 60 mph in 2nd gear as well. The weight difference is too small to matter here.

I think irrespective of the differences between the R33 and R34 times around the Nordschleife, which appears to be a few seconds from previous posts.......

As the Nordschliefe is about 13 miles long and the R35 clocked the following times:

7:26.70/(7:29:03 and 7:38) – 2009 GT-R/(Stock)

7:24.22/(7:34 and 7:36) – 2011 GT-R/(Stock)

7:19.01s - 2012 GT-R

7:08.69s - 2015 GT-R Nismo

This would mean even the R33 would finish at least a mile behind the R35 (assuming the R33 did it in 8:01........... sobering thought :unsure:
I think the gap would narrow with more modern tires but there is the distinct possibility that the R33/R34 would just ventilate the block halfway through the run from oil starvation.
 

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Discussion Starter #72

Best Motoring's testing claims the R33 is slower than the R34 for the quarter mile. This is really not about "personal opinion". It literally would not make sense for an R34 to be slower than an R33 yadder, yadder,yadder....
They also quote all Skyline GT-R's engine power as 276bhp - Which is a lie.

They also say a BNR34's weight is 1560kgs (3439lbs) - Which again is another lie.

They call it Godzilla but only a BNR32 is worthy of carrying such a name....LOL!


The weight difference is too small to matter here.
In the REAL World, The BCNR33's weighs more like 1600kgs and the replacement BNR34's sit at 1660kgs. I keep forgetting that a piffy 60kg difference is only a packet of crisps weight difference to an average American....o_O




I think irrespective of the differences between the R33 and R34 times around the Nordschleife, which appears to be a few seconds from previous posts.......

As the Nordschliefe is about 13 miles long and the R35 clocked the following times:

7:26.70/(7:29:03 and 7:38) – 2009 GT-R/(Stock)

7:24.22/(7:34 and 7:36) – 2011 GT-R/(Stock)

7:19.01s - 2012 GT-R

7:08.69s - 2015 GT-R Nismo

This would mean even the R33 would finish at least a mile behind the R35 (assuming the R33 did it in 8:01........... sobering thought :unsure:

Oh Dear! As a true R33 Fan Boy, I know I'm going to regret this.....Is joshuaho96 gonna use this against me??



To put things into perspective here, In 1999 there was the BNR34 N1 Race Spec which had around 500bhp from its twin turbo RB26. The Factory claimed only 450bhp output but guess what, Nissan LIED and Sandoh-san confirmed it was actually nearly 500bhp. Shock and Horror, Who'd have thought that when the Japanese came to official figures they'd downplay the results and fib!



Depending on who you believe (Best Motoring's - 8:01 or Nissan's - 7:59 Official Ring Times) This means the newer Stock 350bhp Skyline GT-R at some point had done a 7:55 or a 7:52 Lap Time. (Hi Iain - :whistle: Moleman always comes when you mention these Lap Times). Take another further 30 seconds off of these results for the 500bhp N1 Race Spec R34 and you get a 7:25 or a 7:22 figure after it had completed 180 plus turns of a 15.2 mile trek through the Eifel Mountains on the old Nurburgring.

With similar power to the stock 2009/2011 R35's, A Tuned R34 GTR is still miraculously in the same Ball-Park time-wise with the newer 3.8L V6 Nissan GT-R's that came out For Sale over a decade later. By your Own figures SKNAM, It took until 2015's 600bhp Nismo release to significantly improve on these 2.6L Straight Six N1 Race Spec times by more than just a couple of seconds. If that's considered massive progress, I'm utterly unimpressed.

JM2PW!
 

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They also quote all Skyline GT-R's engine power as 276bhp - Which is a lie.

They also say a BNR34's weight is 1560kgs (3439lbs) - Which again is another lie.

They call it Godzilla but only a BNR32 is worthy of carrying such a name....LOL!


In the REAL World, The BCNR33's weighs more like 1600kgs and the replacement BNR34's sit at 1660kgs. I keep forgetting that a piffy 60kg difference is only a packet of crisps weight difference to an average American....o_O
Nah man no crisps, it's the big gulp. Every American I spoke to about Skylines thinks the R34 is the best because Paul Walker jumped a bridge with it and that the R33 is crappy whale. Love the US a lot, but they're gullible sadly.

 

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Discussion Starter #74

Nah man no crisps, it's the big gulp.
LMAO!:LOL: Bet that's a small one too....:ROFLMAO:


Every American I spoke to about Skylines thinks the R34 is the best because Paul Walker jumped a bridge with it and that the R33 is crappy whale.
Sadly so true. Even here the "Chavvy Experts" don't realise the BNR34 Sibling shares so much of its actual DNA, Panels and mechanical parts with its far older BCNR33 Father its scary. I guess it really comes down to which version was the Top Dog Icon Dream Machine when You were celebrating ones Youth?!




Love the US a lot, but they're gullible sadly.
Will be interesting to see what happens when the R34's reach the twenty five year Import age G-Zilla!:unsure:
 

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Nah man no crisps, it's the big gulp. Every American I spoke to about Skylines thinks the R34 is the best because Paul Walker jumped a bridge with it and that the R33 is crappy whale. Love the US a lot, but they're gullible sadly.

We will see how things go but I suspect, as do a number of US importers, that the R33 GT-R will be more popular than the R34 due to its additional interior room and lower price.

Personally speaking I've already had my R33 waiting in storage for a year now, it's undergoing some maintenance and restoration before being shipped to the US for CA emissions compliance work.
 

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We will see how things go but I suspect, as do a number of US importers, that the R33 GT-R will be more popular than the R34 due to its additional interior room and lower price.

Personally speaking I've already had my R33 waiting in storage for a year now, it's undergoing some maintenance and restoration before being shipped to the US for CA emissions compliance work.
Ah, the 10-15K registration sticker/CARB compliance. Also residing in commiefornia, but moving out soon. The CARB compliance will probably be gone by the time you import your R33 since President Trump (backed by many automakers) is suing CARB and the state of California for implementing emission standards the EPA is responsible. Mary Nichols is going on a meltdown just like Pelosi is, since her shares in Tesla will be of no use then. I agree to disagree, after seeing all the 32/33/34 generations at one cars and coffee, and so it seemed many of the people swarmed the R34 GTR like flies to a turd. A couple cars down was an R33 that sat all alone. I believe Sean Morris sold one of the midnight purple R34s for $150,000 no?
 

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Ah, the 10-15K registration sticker/CARB compliance. Also residing in commiefornia, but moving out soon. The CARB compliance will probably be gone by the time you import your R33 since President Trump (backed by many automakers) is suing CARB and the state of California for implementing emission standards the EPA is responsible. Mary Nichols is going on a meltdown just like Pelosi is, since her shares in Tesla will be of no use then. I agree to disagree, after seeing all the 32/33/34 generations at one cars and coffee, and so it seemed many of the people swarmed the R34 GTR like flies to a turd. A couple cars down was an R33 that sat all alone. I believe Sean Morris sold one of the midnight purple R34s for $150,000 no?
There's no difference in cost for people at a car show/meet to look at an R32 or R33 vs an R34. There is a pretty big difference between buying an R33 and R34 GT-R. I think many people will realize that the R33 and R34 are basically the same cars give or take some small refinements that can and have been added to the R33s, Aki's car is probably the best example of how the R34 parts can be retrofitted to the R33 to make the car just as capable as, if not more so than the R34. On top of that you get more room in an R33 and the longer wheelbase which makes it more stable on expressways/highways.

On the topic of emissions the CARB/EPA fight is irrelevant to grey market import. This fight is entirely over new car emissions standards and fleet average fuel economy for new cars. Every state has a CARB equivalent that is primarily focused on implementing and enforcing federal EPA regulations, CARB is just unique in that they are setting their own emission standards and fleet average fuel economy standards due to their waiver in the clean air act. Many other states require smog every 2 years regardless of the age of the car just like California, California is just unique in that they mandate that you meet EPA new car emissions performance for the year of production regardless of the age of the car if it was made after 1974. The RB26 does not meet EPA standards for any car from 1989 to 2002. It lacks EGR, it lacks secondary air injection, it lacks VVT, the injectors are horrible for atomization. For 1996+ cars there is no OBD2 for the RB26 in any way, shape or form. Even if tomorrow Trump won his legal fight against CARB absolutely nothing would change on grey market imports for California.

I have spent a long time thinking about how to deal with these problems. Sean has given up on CA emissions compliance for the R34s and series 2/3 R33s to my knowledge. It is just too hard, too expensive to make OBD2 work and it is technically both a state and federal regulation to have OBD2 for 1996 or later year vehicles.
 

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On the topic of emissions the CARB/EPA fight is irrelevant to grey market import. This fight is entirely over new car emissions standards and fleet average fuel economy for new cars. Every state has a CARB equivalent that is primarily focused on implementing and enforcing federal EPA regulations, CARB is just unique in that they are setting their own emission standards and fleet average fuel economy standards due to their waiver in the clean air act. Many other states require smog every 2 years regardless of the age of the car just like California, California is just unique in that they mandate that you meet EPA new car emissions performance for the year of production regardless of the age of the car if it was made after 1974. The RB26 does not meet EPA standards for any car from 1989 to 2002. It lacks EGR, it lacks secondary air injection, it lacks VVT, the injectors are horrible for atomization. For 1996+ cars there is no OBD2 for the RB26 in any way, shape or form. Even if tomorrow Trump won his legal fight against CARB absolutely nothing would change on grey market imports for California.

I have spent a long time thinking about how to deal with these problems. Sean has given up on CA emissions compliance for the R34s and series 2/3 R33s to my knowledge. It is just too hard, too expensive to make OBD2 work and it is technically both a state and federal regulation to have OBD2 for 1996 or later year vehicles.
Oh okay, thank you for specifying it for me. You're right, I thought they planned on abolishing CARB all together from what other news media were pushing. Sean also told me how bad the OBD2s and he mentioned G&K auto conversions had them do the whole compliance modifications, but at $15,000 USD that is way too much and absurd. And they began to crack down on out of state cars. The state is just annihilated by the socialists it's absurd.

There's no difference in cost for people at a car show/meet to look at an R32 or R33 vs an R34. There is a pretty big difference between buying an R33 and R34 GT-R. I think many people will realize that the R33 and R34 are basically the same cars give or take some small refinements that can and have been added to the R33s, Aki's car is probably the best example of how the R34 parts can be retrofitted to the R33 to make the car just as capable as, if not more so than the R34. On top of that you get more room in an R33 and the longer wheelbase which makes it more stable on expressways/highways.
Maybe, we'll see. The R33 2.5 variant is selling for 24,000 USD there, so I wouldn't be surprised. After all, they throw there money at everything here like the $150,000 USD R34. I hope you will enjoy your R33, I bet it will be a joy to drive.
 

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Oh okay, thank you for specifying it for me. You're right, I thought they planned on abolishing CARB all together from what other news media were pushing. Sean also told me how bad the OBD2s and he mentioned G&K auto conversions had them do the whole compliance modifications, but at $15,000 USD that is way too much and absurd. And they began to crack down on out of state cars. The state is just annihilated by the socialists it's absurd.



Maybe, we'll see. The R33 2.5 variant is selling for 24,000 USD there, so I wouldn't be surprised. After all, they throw there money at everything here like the $150,000 USD R34. I hope you will enjoy your R33, I bet it will be a joy to drive.
OBD2 + emissions performance was ballparked at 50k per car due to the high cost of development. A lot of parts need to be retrofitted, developed, and validated. I don't know where you got the 15k figure from. 10k is the standard for G&K, they have a monopoly on grey market import for what is effectively welding some different catalytic converters poorly to the downpipe + main cat position and a restrictor on the fuel nozzle so you can't put leaded gas nozzles in there. This is the cost for all 1989 to 1995 RB26 GT-Rs assuming you bring them a stock car without a bunch of problems.

CARB is pretty open as to why they make this so difficult, it's because they want to discourage people from doing this. I personally think the FTP testing mandate is excessive but I don't really see an issue with the simple IM240 smog sniffer test, it's really not that hard if your car is even remotely well maintained and you haven't done something stupid like vent the PCV to atmosphere or decat your car.
 
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