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Mycroft said:
Way back in the 80's I designed one of the 'de-ionising' systems for a number of F1 teams, these old Turbo motors suffered this phenomenon to such an extent that at certain revs you could actually destroy the motor!


Iain,

Run that one past me again please. How did that work?
 

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Discussion Starter #24
This is not at all easy to explain, let me think about it, barometric ionisation causes confusion to even quite accomplished theoreticians and it takes quite some effort explaining fully the phenomenon, let alone the cure. Difficult.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
OK, this is really very difficult and I am gonna cut corners rather a lot and leave myself open to 'nit-pcking' from people who may know a little about this.

For the picky out there this is simplified....OK

Let's first understand what Ionisation is in this context.

When a substance is vaporized in a flame, and providing the flame is hot enough, one or more of its electrons will be "excited" into one or more higher energy state. This is the 'quantum change' of the octane booster thread.
In the case of very hot flames the substance may lose an electron
completely and be ionized. The life time of these excited states is usually very short [micro to nano seconds].
Immediately the electron loses energy and falls into the lower energy levels or into the ground state. (this is the lowest energy state.)
The substance emits a photon corresponding to the energy differences of these transitions.
You may recall me explaining this in the OB thread, well like all things in Theoretical Physics there are more one manner to explain things and we are trying to see this now from the ionisation angle.

Ok so ionisation is short lived as a single event but when in a dense cloud or better still a compressed cloud there is the opportunity for the even times to lengthen slightly, this minute change has a barometric threshold for continued propogation of the process this pomotes the shedding of the Electron and the Ionisation process becomes erratic, now in a balanced process the electrons only occur with a corresponding anihilation process and the flame does its task, if however there are Ionised particles at the spark there can be a 'brake' put on the detonation, the process is said to chemically unbalanced.

The really clever bit is to clear that ionisation without destroying the balance the other way because supression of the balanced ionisation process produces a 'cold' flame which lack full combustion processes leaving the motor with a weak stroke cycle.

Well, you did ask!

I quite like that explanation, not bad for a Wednesday afternoon.
 

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Very well put Mycroft. Even I understood it

``I proclaim I'm sick of my lot,
Spinning around the same old spot!
There's been nothing to do for a second or two,
I'm not going to take it, I'm not!''

``I'm so bored I think I will drop,
Down to 2s, and there I will stop.
And that will release, femtoJoules at least,
Just from me doing a hop!''

``Oh `look' (?!) at that photon a-leaving at last,
As all of it goes by every path,
And all cancel out, without any doubt,
In either the future or past!''

``Hey positron, yes, you over there,
Got a few moments to spare?
Race at me fast, (Oh what a blast...),
Let's BLOW this annihilation pair!''



Greg Baker 24.5.93
 

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Mycroft....Is there any downside to running a plug too cold for example?? or is it not possible to go too cold without fouling?

Are the iridium/platinum tipped plugs really that much better than a conventional tipped plug of similar heat range? Do they allow for a better/easier path for the spark to jump, or are they simply there to give the plug a longer service life??

Also...what, if any, are the downsides to running a very small gap on a plug ( say 0.020" ), if it seems necessary for clean running, with no high boost missfire issues??
 

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Discussion Starter #30
stevieturbo said:
Mycroft....Is there any downside to running a plug too cold for example?? or is it not possible to go too cold without fouling?
Bad news...it will foul up you need the heat to keep it clean.

stevieturbo said:
Are the iridium/platinum tipped plugs really that much better than a conventional tipped plug of similar heat range? Do they allow for a better/easier path for the spark to jump, or are they simply there to give the plug a longer service life??
They are very superior in every way, they wear less, they generate a consistent spark and as a result they last longer, throw away conventional plugs, they are no good for the modern road car.

stevieturbo said:
Also...what, if any, are the downsides to running a very small gap on a plug ( say 0.020" ), if it seems necessary for clean running, with no high boost missfire issues??
Half a millimetere (0.02") is a weedy spark, it won't have to be very powerful to jump the gap and so will heat the tip instead, it is entirely self defeating.0.8mm is a good sized spark and 0.9 is in my opinion better........little tip...the gap of your plugs should be as big as you can get them so long as you have no misfire, you can gain a few horses by changing from 0.8mm to 0.9mm..
 

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mycroft,


just reading over what you wrote on the ionisation front.

can you put in simple terms (since I am a bit thick) how you solved it.

since its old now, patent rights and secrecy wont be a problem!



Adam (patent agent with degree in theoretical physics)
 

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Discussion Starter #32
22B said:


since I am a bit thick

Adam (patent agent with degree in theoretical physics)
God, you must be thick! hahahaha

I'll check with the Company as I believe that part of the fee was to give the 'Intellectual Property Rights' to them.

I did sign such a document and even if it was slightly vague, for my continued 'credibility' I would not publish the info on a public forum.

That's a sort of, 'Bugger off' with flowers!:D
 

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Peter

PeterE said:
Nice!

Knowing that one of our 'members' has suffered badly from a plug disintegrating, what could cause this? I guess it would either be a manufacturing fault (unlikely?) or severe detonation presumably?
Have just seen this can I ask who you are refering to ?
 

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,

Was Just wondering, as it seems a conclusive presumption
from you, thats all,
I probably know who you mean dont I
 

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i thought it was the midget?

well that is what he was telling us here on the board, at meets and whereever else he went.

Or was it sth else as I have not seen that lovely car around for ages?
will it be ready soon?
 

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I

must have misread your statement in your quote then,as the word presumably comes just after detonation,
The engine has been fully stripped and inspected now,it was not done before now due to information gathering by the owner, and oh boy did i **** myself laughing at some of the reasons for failure given.In fact all were presumed !

The damage to the engine amounts to 1 exploded sodium filled exhaust valve and one disintergrated spark plug earth electrode,

I have decided after much deliberation the spark plug failed first causing a fraction of it to be trapped under the valve head causing the valve outer casing to rupture and its inner filling to do the rest of the damage to the valve,
unlucky really as just a tadge more velocity on it, it would have carried on and through the turbo in dust form and through the exhaust with the rest of the crap.

The reason the plug failed was excessive combustion chamber temperature this was a result of an air leak from
A the inlet manifold bolts were loose !
B the throttle body gaskets have actually been blown oval

For your information there is no sign of detonation in any of the combustion chambers or on any of the piston crowns or the other plug tips.

There is no reason to suspect the spark plug manufacture (hks) as the plug only acted as any other make of plug would have under the circumstances

There is also no damage to the turbos as these have been stipped and inspected and the pistons can be re-used if that is the route that we decide to go, the valve seat and the combustion chamber are also in perfect condition.

In some respects you could class this as a lucky escape,It obviously would have been better if it never had happened but unfortunatly things do happen to these engines,

My point being assuming things even if it does come from other sorces (which seems to happen a lot in the skyline world which is a shame) is not good practice, only dealing with fact is.

The good news is the car will be on the road again soon in all its glory, slightly modified:)

regards
 

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Not sure what you're on about especially as no names had even been mentioned before you came onboard this thread but seeing as you've gone to great lengths to try to point out the error of my ways, my post was merely intended to be a contribution to the subject in hand. It wasn't a pop at you so I'm not sure why you've decided to become so defensive? Tell you what Gary, I won't believe anything anybody tells me about their cars again unless I've seen it with my own eyes, OK?
 

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I

am not being defensive just factual, i havent reverted to sarcasm,
why oh why can things never be put on this board without a drama,
I picked up on your post and asked a question,
thats all,
Shurley you wanted an answer to your statement,
or else you wouldent have posted it, so i am not having a pop at you either
I dont understand why you became sarcastic ?
anyway dont bother explaining as it doesent bother me at all,
I let it go over my head as i am enjoying skyline life too much these days to worry !

appologies to mycroft if this has mared your very informative thread
 
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