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Discussion Starter #1
As title ses,im thinking of upgrading me brakes on my R33GTR(running standard brembos at moment) Not sure what to go for? Is it worth replacing the rear as well as the front? A few people have said you only need upgrade the front as thats what you use all the time,are they correct? I have Nismo LMGT4s 18x9.5j +12 offset wheels fitted. Ive seen these brake kits for sale on the other forum;
KSport brake kits- 330mm £699 - 356mm £849. In stock - ready to send RIGHT NOW! - Skyline Owners Forum
Do you think they are any good? Do i go 6 pot or 8 pot? And what size disc will i fit in my rims? Any advice welcome,cheers,Daz.
 

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Calipers are OK.....Rotors look like rubbish.

....But then they are Chinese brakes....
 

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What disks/pads do you have at the moment?

Is it for track, road or both?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
What disks/pads do you have at the moment?

Is it for track, road or both?
Mainly road but will be for a few track days aswell. As far as im aware they are standard brakes/discs,couldnt tell you the pads. But it sure does need stopping all those ponies a bit better now ;-)
 

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As title ses,im thinking of upgrading me brakes on my R33GTR(running standard brembos at moment) Not sure what to go for? Is it worth replacing the rear as well as the front? A few people have said you only need upgrade the front as thats what you use all the time,are they correct? I have Nismo LMGT4s 18x9.5j +12 offset wheels fitted. Ive seen these brake kits for sale on the other forum;
KSport brake kits- 330mm £699 - 356mm £849. In stock - ready to send RIGHT NOW! - Skyline Owners Forum
Do you think they are any good? Do i go 6 pot or 8 pot? And what size disc will i fit in my rims? Any advice welcome,cheers,Daz.
I reckon you'd get 356's under there. I'm sure a couple of people here have done so.

Hi-Spec do some pretty nice kits and generally have a good reputation.

If it's any help AFAIK those D2/K-Sport calipers are copies of AP items...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I reckon you'd get 356's under there. I'm sure a couple of people here have done so.

Hi-Spec do some pretty nice kits and generally have a good reputation.

If it's any help AFAIK those D2/K-Sport calipers are copies of AP items...
Thanks.all info welcome,all helps to build a picture.Want to get a decent set of brakes at a decent price. So would everyone out there just upgrade the front? or is it advantageous to do the rears aswell?
 

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Ultimately better brakes front and rear are a good thing. My only concern would be that sticking a set of four/six pot calipers on the back would be that the piston area would be different from the stock two pot items.

I think that the Brembo equipped cars had more rear balance so might be less of an issue.
 

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Mainly road but will be for a few track days aswell. As far as im aware they are standard brakes/discs,couldnt tell you the pads. But it sure does need stopping all those ponies a bit better now ;-)
I'm happy with standard disks, yellow stuff pads and (soon) decent brake fluid, but that's just for road use and I don't brake much on the road tbh...
 

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I think the factory Brembos are a pretty good setup, as long as they have a good set of pads, good brake fluid, stainless lines and a brake cylinder stopper.

If you do want to upgrade, Endless, Project Mu or ORC make nice 6 pot front kits for the BCNR33. Also, Essential sells a nice Brembo F50 kit that uses the factory rotor size that is a decent price.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the replies guys. Goin delve in all the info youve gave me and see what comes out as the best options. I do think my standard brakes arent upto it though,seems to take me a bit too long to stop sometimes :-( ,want put a set on that leaves ya inards behind when ya put them on ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just found these;
D2 Big Brake Kits 330mm and 356mm Discs 8 Pot Calipers - Skyline Owners Forum
Are they better than the K-sport or much the same?
Also can anyone tell me the best place to find prices on any of these?
Endless, Project Mu or ORC make nice 6 pot front kits for the BCNR33. Also, Essential sells a nice Brembo F50 kit that uses the factory rotor size that is a decent price.
cheers
 

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Just found these;
D2 Big Brake Kits 330mm and 356mm Discs 8 Pot Calipers - Skyline Owners Forum
Are they better than the K-sport or much the same?
Also can anyone tell me the best place to find prices on any of these?
Endless, Project Mu or ORC make nice 6 pot front kits for the BCNR33. Also, Essential sells a nice Brembo F50 kit that uses the factory rotor size that is a decent price.
cheers
D2 probably come out of the same Chinese factory as K-Sport. Why not ALCON or AP Racing?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
[QUOT Why not ALCON or AP Racing?[/QUOTE]

Thats 2 more to add to me list and check up on. Do you know prices and places to get them from? cheers
 

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Just found these;
D2 Big Brake Kits 330mm and 356mm Discs 8 Pot Calipers - Skyline Owners Forum
Are they better than the K-sport or much the same?
Also can anyone tell me the best place to find prices on any of these?
Endless, Project Mu or ORC make nice 6 pot front kits for the BCNR33. Also, Essential sells a nice Brembo F50 kit that uses the factory rotor size that is a decent price.
cheers
D2 and K-Sport are exactly the same (branding aside).

I wouldn't get too concerned about where the units are manufactured. You'd be surprised at where stuff is really made! I have heard little but praise for the kits especially when factoring in cost.

Also can be worth thinking about hybrid kits - a nice set of Porsche calipers with Performance Friction discs would work well.

On the cheaper side of things Wilwood make kits. They seem to have similar pricing to Hi-Spec.

If you like brand names then have a look at Stoptech.

Depending on your utilisation some really decent pads and discs (perhaps with a spacer kit) could give you an excellent upgrade. Pads and discs are the bits that actually touch each other.
 

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Personally I would choose between AP Racing, Brembo (who now own AP, but run an independent line of products) and Alcon (greddy sell a kit based on Alcon calipers and discs. I wrote a brief resume on brake upgrades for the Supra forum I am active on, but the same is 100% relevant to any car:

Brake upgrades can set out to try to achieve several objectives.
The commonest are to increase resistance to fade and or increase
braking effort for a given pedal effort. IE, the pads are
pushed against the discs harder for a given pedal effort than
before the upgrade, or the brakes will stop the car from 100 MPH,
hard, for more times before fade sets in, than previously. The feel
from the pedal, that almost intangible quality, can also be addressed
and sometimes improved upon by brake size, or pad material changes, or
brake flexi hose upgrades to something less squashy than rubber.
It's easy to get carried away by the thought of brake upgrades.
The limitation in most cars as to how short a distance they can
stop in is tyre friction. Leaving aside pedal feedback, and fade,
it is almost certain that a Supra on stock Jap spec brakes will
stop in just as short a distance as one with an AP six pot kit on
it, a Brembo kit, a KAD kit, or whatever. It may not feel to
the driver that it does, but usually such is the case if you just
nail the pedal as hard as you can. The fancy kits may *FEEL* to
stop the car faster, due to less pedal effort, and a better bite,
but in reality, if you hit the pedal as hard as you can with stock
Jap spec brakes, UK spec brakes, AP kit, KAD, whatever, the car
will stop in the same distance. Repeat this test 10 times and stock
Jap brakes may be on fire and long since faded, or the fluid boiled,
UK ones may be very hot and bothered, but the upgraded ones will
probably still be working within pad, disc and brake fluid temp
limits. Add in the intangible "feel" factor, and a desire to brake
as hard as possible, using as little skill as possible, but WITHOUT
relying on the ABS to take over, and for sure a well set up brake
upgrade may well allow more finesse.

Herein though lies the rub.

Upgrade only the fronts and the brake balance of the stock car may
well be compromised. Let's take stock brakes. You press smoothly on
the brake pedal with (say) 50 pounds force. The car stops fine. 70
pounds, the fronts are just beginning to lock (car makers ALWAYS aim
for the fronts to lock first, as rear wheel lock makes the car very
unstable and liable to swap ends). The rears are doing as much work
as the brake engineers deemed safe to prevent premature rear lock up.
The ABS cuts in, and maximum retardation has been reached. Now, take
a car with big front discs and calipers. Only 40 pounds pressure now
gives a smooth, lock free and powerful retardation. 50 pounds and the
new, more powerful, (for the same pedal pressure), fronts are locking.
The ABS cuts in. BUT, and this is the crux, those original rear
calipers and discs are still well below the caliper pressure where
they are able to achieve maximum retardation without fear of the
rears locking.

In other words the FRONT brakes are doing TOO MUCH work, albeit without
breaking into a sweat, and the rears are, to exaggerate a bit,
just along for the ride. The BEST scenario is to upgrade front AND
rear brakes, carefully ensuring the original balance of effort at any
given brake pedal pressure remains as designed, but that the more efficient
front AND rear brakes stay cooler for more hard stops, and that old
intangible "feel" from the brake pedal is improved, at lower rates of
driver effort on the pedal. The latter may or may not be good or
desirable, and can be engineered out by changing BOTH front and rear
caliper piston sizes, or pad areas. In a race car the balance would
be adjustable via 2 brake master cylinders, with a driver selectable
change in mechanical leverage effort between front and rear brake circuits,
one cylinder operating the front brake calipers, the other the rear. This
can also be achieved on road cars, but to do so is usually complex and
expensive, especially if ABS and brake circuit failure safeguards are to be
maintained. It is far easier to calculate the caliper and disc sizes, along with
pad area and compound to achieve this, as near as available off the
shelf equipment will allow.

Caveat. I said before makers engineer more effort on the front brakes to
encourage straight line stopping if the tyres are locked up . They err on
the excessive side, as, in the wet, the rear tyres can take a lot more
braking effort than in the dry, due to less weight transfer onto the front
tyres, as they will lock before as much weight is transferred when the grip
of the road surface is reduced. So adding yet more front brake effort worsens
this existing imbalance, especially in the wet. If it were not for the
ABS the front wheels would be locking up very early. On the Supra a
relatively sophisticated ABS allows some effort to be taken off JUST
the fronts, and an artificial and very inefficient balance is returned.
On cars with lesser (1 or 2 channel) ABS, or no ABS at all, a brake
upgrade on just one end of the car can be lethal.
 

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Great write up Chris.
As you mentioned soo many people only upgrade the front brakes and don't get the most out of them.
I think the big thing too is the reduction of fade, My R33 bembos with Project Mu rotors weren't up to the job of stopping my over weight R32 on the first track day out (Smoked the pads, warped the disks, long pedal after 2-3laps on our tight twisty track in ChCh)

...Bring on the next track day with my new Wilwood 6pot and 4pots!!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for the info chris,its extremely helpful. So now youve pointed out the downfalls of not upgrading front and rear,and youve convinced me its the way to go. But now the question lies what size do you put on front and rear to get the balance right? Do you go 6 pot front-4pot rear? 8 pot front 6 pot rear? or another combination? I want to get it right 1st time,as i havnt got the money to change again,cheers,Daz
 

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...

It's easy to get carried away by the thought of brake upgrades.
The limitation in most cars as to how short a distance they can
stop in is tyre friction. Leaving aside pedal feedback, and fade,
it is almost certain that a Supra on stock Jap spec brakes will
stop in just as short a distance as one with an AP six pot kit on
it, a Brembo kit, a KAD kit, or whatever. It may not feel to
the driver that it does, but usually such is the case if you just
nail the pedal as hard as you can. The fancy kits may *FEEL* to
stop the car faster, due to less pedal effort, and a better bite,
but in reality, if you hit the pedal as hard as you can with stock
Jap spec brakes, UK spec brakes, AP kit, KAD, whatever, the car
will stop in the same distance. Repeat this test 10 times and stock
Jap brakes may be on fire and long since faded, or the fluid boiled,
UK ones may be very hot and bothered, but the upgraded ones will
probably still be working within pad, disc and brake fluid temp
limits. Add in the intangible "feel" factor, and a desire to brake
as hard as possible, using as little skill as possible, but WITHOUT
relying on the ABS to take over, and for sure a well set up brake
upgrade may well allow more finesse.
...
This article interested me:

http://www.ksport.co.uk/vids/Ksport-JP-July07.pdf

Assuming that it's a fair test then the kit would appear to stop the car in a shorter distance (approx 25 feet from the data supplied) and not just when the pads/discs are overheating.

Obviously the kit itself is irrelevant just the thought that if the ABS represents maximum retardation how would changing the brakes improve upon this?
 

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am in the same situation dont know wot to go for. After doing my first track day on sunday ive fully cooked the standard brakes pedal went to the floor braking for hairpin not a nice feeling. At the min dont have the funds to buy the stoptech set up was wonderin wood drilled and vented discs gd pads and braided lines gd brake fluid hold up to the abuse?? oh wots a brake cylinder stopper? any 1 no were to get discs at gd money theres sum on eday but look wick
 
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