GTR Forum banner

21 - 40 of 77 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,788 Posts
If you're about to consider works and expect to hand over thousands of pounds, would you really want to rely solely on a verbal agreement?
I know you should be able to have that must trust but from the past experience of countless others, I'd say a written quotation should be provided as a minimum.
So long as you both understand it's a quote and not an estimate.
So did I, get a quote.

But a quote is just about money and the quote can change when their sales tactics kick in once they have your car apart. (Their greed)
A quote doesn't cover you for incompetence or lack of knowledge does it?
It just clarifies the amount your spending and what they are doing to the car.
It doesn't exactly tell you it takes ex amount of time to build the car unless they are top level tuners that 100% know what they are doing or the fact that the company in question can't actually do the job properly and has to employ external services for help or the fact they are to tight ass to even do that and just palm you off and show no interest?
The thing is, it's always best to use a REPUTABLE tuner.. do your research and you will be less likely to be burned.

I classed my quote technically as a close as best estimate (yes things can crop up when doing the work, aka tuner finds issues weak/worn parts whilst working thats normal -they advise and it's upto you if you replace, unless obviously nessesary) as i discussed the build with the tuner... agreed all the parts, the labor, and so the work began, the build was then completed... the price stayed the same, i paid and have been driving said forged build for 2 years no issues, aka the build was done to a very high standard as expected, akin REPUTABLE years of experience tuner.

If you get a to cheap no frills, back street buy cheap buy twice tuner, expect to get turned over.

You all know who, again the REPUTABLE tuners are, and who the no so ones are as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,668 Posts
Last garage I took my car to to finish off engine work not only tried to fleece me of £££ but also shredded my car cover and ripped the kick panel in half.

Their attitude it was like that when it came in. Well no it wasn’t like that. Anyone who knows me I’m into small details and would have known about it. They screwed up which made me cut all ties with them. As long as you feed them £££ they are happy.

Strange thing they destroyed Busters gear selector surround trim also. Again there was nothing said and I think Buster just accepted it.

There are very few people around these days who won’t cheat you out of your money and offer a great service.

If you find anyone like this let me know.

In this game you have to be self sufficient.

Hi guys I just wanted some opinions.

If you had your car engine rebuilt because you didn’t want any issues when running big power and went to the hassle of spending a hell of a lot of time and money buying and changing everything in and outside to prevent any issues.

What and how would expect the company you deal with to act?

This would be the logical protocol for me.

For example;

Car is booked in
Spec is kind of agreed but of course always changes in this case for the better as there is no room for cutting corners at this level of power or any power IMO
Build goes ahead
Everything is put back together
Engine is run in
Then it’s time for mapping on the Dyno
Then car should be driven on the road or private runway in this case and adjusted until the professionals (hopefully not cowboys) being employed is happy to give the car back to the customer
Then the customer picks up the car in perfect order
Then customer should be as happy as Larry to go use the car and just maintain it as it has been over specked to maintain reliability and also maybe brings car back for a thorough check over depending on the nature of this beast but in this case a must again IMO.

IF and a big IF there has been a human error and humans do make errors the professionals should be able to take a bit of criticism and deal with any issues you come across without a hassle or headache when someone or anyone’s pride and joy is involved?

Does this make sense to any of you or am I over expecting and just in dream land because I personally think this is common sense ?

Feel free to comment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,668 Posts
Agree fully with you and Duke.

As a customer, you should never ever feel worried about handing over your car to have work done... EVER... PERIOD!

The shop, tuner or whoever should do all they can to keep your trust as their main priority, because in the end it is a personal transaction, a transaction of trust.

I trust my local garage wholeheartedly, not because they get everything 100% right, but because when something goes wrong they will do what they can to put it right and not beat about the bush or pass the blame.

In the end for them it's about keeping the customer happy and ALWAYS maintaining trust. It's because of that ethic I recommend all my friends and family to go there to have work done on their cars.

Some people underestimate the word of mouth - keep a customer happy and they'll tell a hundred people, make a customer unhappy... again they'll tell a hundred people. So which is the best option?

I'm reasonable, I know things go wrong, and tbh when things do go wrong it's not really about how it happened, it's about what will be done to deal with it - that is what I look at always.

A person's or company's approach to dealing with an unforeseen problem speaks a thousand words.
Agree.

It’s very rare because what I’ve seen over the years is people are too I quick to take your money and fail to deliver the service and if they do it’s often sub par or they damage or break things. Several years ago their were good examples on this forum and MLR of owners having their car parts stolen by big name tuners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,668 Posts
Great posts guys thank you for your responses.

Verbal contract should be enough but it seem to good to be true so to anyone reading these posts I hope you are going to learn from others mistakes.

All I can say is what goes around comes around and the truth always comes out in the end!

Also I hope this truth will stay posted on the forums and never be deleted to protect the rogue traders!!!!
Nothing verbal holds true these days. Contract as suggested by Matt is the way forward to protect from any issues. Not to mention a detailed inventory list of upgraded parts and a visual check should be done on these after work has completed to ensure they are still present. (Hard for internal parts)
 

·
Following EJH#25
Joined
·
6,824 Posts
The thing is, it's always best to use a REPUTABLE tuner.. do your research and you will be less likely to be burned.
The point being made above by the OP etc is that the forum only has REPUTABLE tuners onboard, with only positive feedback allowed, how can you make an informed decision as to what you feel is reputable?

I classed my quote technically as a close as best estimate (yes things can crop up when doing the work, aka tuner finds issues weak/worn parts whilst working thats normal -they advise and it's upto you if you replace, unless obviously nessesary) as i discussed the build with the tuner... agreed all the parts, the labor, and so the work began, the build was then completed... the price stayed the same, i paid and have been driving said forged build for 2 years no issues, aka the build was done to a very high standard as expected, akin REPUTABLE years of experience tuner.
So as a customer getting a quote, you then classed it as an estimate and presumably you were happy in doing so. Not many owners of the older generation models have the same expectations as you from what I see.

You all know who, again the REPUTABLE tuners are, and who the no so ones are as well.
Obviously, the entire thread has gone over your head then...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,668 Posts
So did I, get a quote.

But a quote is just about money and the quote can change when their sales tactics kick in once they have your car apart. (Their greed)

A quote doesn’t cover you for incompetence or lack of knowledge does it?

It just clarifies the amount your spending and what they are doing to the car.

It doesn’t exactly tell you it takes ex amount of time to build the car unless they are top level tuners that 100% know what they are doing or the fact that the company in question can’t actually do the job properly and has to employ external services for help or the fact they are to tight ass to even do that and just palm you off and show no interest?
How long is a piece of string and all that - that’s the tuning world. Granted not everything can be given a time but I do think from my own experiences most people push that time get more money out of the customer. Some people quote low labour rates but then they take double the time lol.

I know when I take my daily to BMW or an indy they have a set time for most things and charge you accordingly.
 

·
Following EJH#25
Joined
·
6,824 Posts
Nothing verbal holds true these days. Contract as suggested by Matt is the way forward to protect from any issues. Not to mention a detailed inventory list of upgraded parts and a visual check should be done on these after work has completed to ensure they are still present. (Hard for internal parts)
Having a contract and detailed inventory list from Rob (RIP) made it clear to all what was and wasn't covered when he passed away. A totally unexpected and devastating blow to the community left a lot of owners not knowing what to expect next. It might seem OTT at the time but you just never know what is around the corner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Nothing verbal holds true these days. Contract as suggested by Matt is the way forward to protect from any issues. Not to mention a detailed inventory list of upgraded parts and a visual check should be done on these after work has completed to ensure they are still present. (Hard for internal parts)
The thing is what do you do when they have done the build but they do not know how to map the car even though they advised a Syvecs ecu and all the sensors and advised you sell the Haltech?

On top of that they slander the turbo I chose and try to prevent me from using it because they want me to use a precision and obviously sell me one?

Does there need to be a contract for incompetence or lack of knowledge?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
The point being made above by the OP etc is that the forum only has REPUTABLE tuners onboard, with only positive feedback allowed, how can you make an informed decision as to what you feel is reputable?


So as a customer getting a quote, you then classed it as an estimate and presumably you were happy in doing so. Not many owners of the older generation models have the same expectations as you from what I see.


Obviously, the entire thread has gone over your head then...

Thanks Matt you put it beautifully.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,788 Posts
The point being made above by the OP etc is that the forum only has REPUTABLE tuners onboard, with only positive feedback allowed, how can you make an informed decision as to what you feel is reputable?
So as a customer getting a quote, you then classed it as an estimate and presumably you were happy in doing so. Not many owners of the older generation models have the same expectations as you from what I see.
Obviously, the entire thread has gone over your head then...
... and here i am, never been burned by tuners as i do my research and don't just rely on fanboy forum feedback, plus research the threads on multi sites, and talk to other owners as well..

Seems to be working for me, and i'll use the money i've saved from not being ripped off or getting parts stolen, and buy some more mods! :chuckle:
 

·
Following EJH#25
Joined
·
6,824 Posts
... and here i am, never been burned by tuners as i do my research and don't just rely on fanboy forum feedback, plus research the threads on multi sites, and talk to other owners as well..

Seems to be working for me, and i'll use the money i've saved from not being ripped off or getting parts stolen, and buy some more mods! :chuckle:
Looking at your signature, are you even on the same page?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
... and here i am, never been burned by tuners as i do my research and don't just rely on fanboy forum feedback, plus research the threads on multi sites, and talk to other owners as well..

Seems to be working for me, and i'll use the money i've saved from not being ripped off or getting parts stolen, and buy some more mods! :chuckle:
Seriously bro have you never had something bad happen to you in your life in general and been through a similar thing? Tuning aside?

Because if not you are very fortunate.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,245 Posts
I think you'll see this as being aimed at you personally Mook, it's not intended that way but I understand how me asking questions of the forum are directed at you so become personal by default.


I do believe you just opened the door Mook for finally admitting that the user's posts aren't the responsibility of the forum owner, site administrators or moderators.


I haven't really navigated the forum other than hitting the "new post" button for years - did this ever get implemented?



So, Amanda (who's had success btw), Tal and now Nick, along with countless others who've had posts or threads deleted can post respectfully but factually about their issues and you will honour that statement?


I secretly won the EuroMillions and bought the "holy trinity" last week, La Fez, P1 and 918. Did you not check to see? It's very obviously BS by the way, often like the threat of legal action you receive. Can you post evidence to substantiate why you need to moderate, surely by now you must have a huge collection of solicitors letters? I'd be interested in seeing the redacted versions, similar to what I sent you when you disbelieved a tuner had legal action suit against them.


I don't believe any trader sets out to be 'rogue', I believe they hit issues they just can't handle technically or don't want the general public to know. Often this appears like they've ripped someone off or delivered poor service. There's no need to remove any sponsor but there is a need to paint a balanced picture, everyone makes mistakes but reading back through the history on here, the vast majority are upheld as tuning gods. What's wrong with a bit of direct competition, pull your socks up or the business goes elsewhere.


I think it is. So long as the scope and pitfalls are clearly defined.
Yes, these old cars/engines are capable of running extremely large power figures BUT with that comes increased maintenance and failure rates; if you're pre-armed with the correct information, the decision to tune and the associated pitfalls becomes clearer; linking back to the OPs original post...
Hi Matt,
Nothing taken personally anymore mate. I try to ensure balance and will always lean towards protecting a business from people with nothing to lose (not sayuing that is the case here or with others, but again it does happen).

BUT clarification of the law, through GDPR and other matters has given us a clearly defined position. I'm still not convinced that many threads have ever been removed, but you know my policy in locking shit shows. However the forum search engine IS crap and therefore stuff can be hard to find. Long tail Google site searches can find most content however. A "safe space" thread system never really came into being as there hadn't been any threads that were relevant. Plus people will just us FB to air their laundry without any policing.

I would always advise people to seek resolution without going public as much as possible but if you feel every avenue has been exhausted then you should share.

What i cannot control is a tuner telling someone to request content be removed in exchange for resolution (which DOES happen).

I stand by my belief that you cannot spend big money with a tuner and end up happy. Your experiences Matt, with a number of garages show how hard that can be and whilst contracts etc would be great in an ideal world, they simply don't exist in the ambiguity of big build tuning.

I think Nick nailed it with his comment "Put it this way I openly admit to all I became a fanboy because I was sucked into a fake friendship and then I was brainwashed or duped into believing I had “Gods gift of tuners” to then have my dreams crushed by the very same people who extremely over promised and extremely undelivered for a substantial amount of money (greed) and it takes a lot for someone to admit that especially publicly. "

Mike
 

·
Following EJH#25
Joined
·
6,824 Posts
Hi Matt,
Nothing taken personally anymore mate. I try to ensure balance and will always lean towards protecting a business from people with nothing to lose (not sayuing that is the case here or with others, but again it does happen).
Contrary to popular belief, I actually agree Mike - I've actually assisted 2 businesses against customers, not just customers against businesses. You do indeed get some people who want something for nothing, especially those who think they're owed something from life.

BUT clarification of the law, through GDPR and other matters has given us a clearly defined position. I'm still not convinced that many threads have ever been removed, but you know my policy in locking shit shows. However the forum search engine IS crap and therefore stuff can be hard to find. Long tail Google site searches can find most content however. A "safe space" thread system never really came into being as there hadn't been any threads that were relevant. Plus people will just us FB to air their laundry without any policing.
When I was recently asked to assist someone with evidence of negative threads against a tuner, most searches were fruitless.

I would always advise people to seek resolution without going public as much as possible but if you feel every avenue has been exhausted then you should share.
If you go public without giving a business the chance to correct, then why should they even bother? The knife has already been thrust - however, in 99% of posts I've ever read, the tuner/garage/trader has been given plenty of opportunity to do the right thing...

What i cannot control is a tuner telling someone to request content be removed in exchange for resolution (which DOES happen).
Resolution is resolution and if the poster is happy to remove following a successful remedy, then I'm all for it, it still protects the forum members.

I stand by my belief that you cannot spend big money with a tuner and end up happy. Your experiences Matt, with a number of garages show how hard that can be and whilst contracts etc would be great in an ideal world, they simply don't exist in the ambiguity of big build tuning.
I've had a couple of issues and dealt with them in a manner I deemed appropriate at the time. There are many success stories globally Mike, the UK just seems to be way behind in knowledge and customer service. Contracts do exist, for those that are wise enough to utilise one.

I think Nick nailed it with his comment "Put it this way I openly admit to all I became a fanboy because I was sucked into a fake friendship and then I was brainwashed or duped into believing I had “Gods gift of tuners” to then have my dreams crushed by the very same people who extremely over promised and extremely undelivered for a substantial amount of money (greed) and it takes a lot for someone to admit that especially publicly."
Sadly, the vast majority of people have been in that very boat, me included.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,773 Posts
Dont sell the car because of this because now you are disappointed from all of this, i know because i was in the same situation with the same thoughts, once you finish it you will start enjoying it again. The fact you have touched it from stock i have regretted as well by doing the same because i cannot use it as a daily driver anymore as it was but once i take it out and step on it and those 900hp come alive and i hear the screamer pipe and the rev hits 9000rpm i forget everything trust me. You will be like this though only when you sort it out.








Unfortunately in the UK I cannot think of any skyline gtr shop that is any good anymore and it will be very hard for me to trust anyone. (99% of them)

I honestly have thought about selling my car many times but how can I sell it when it’s not running correctly?

I’d be just as big an ass as the cowboys that have touched my car in the first place. :confused:

There needs to be some form of regulation to protect us from getting screwed and I think this forum needs start looking after us because these rogue traders are getting away with murder and it’s not fair.

I understand this is a business but look at what is happening to people who are essentially the back bone of the forum. You start losing long term members and there is no business!

I personally love this forum bar a few negatives and I love skylines and gtr’s So much and this is problem. When we are passionate about something we get taken advantage of which is disgusting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Dont sell the car because of this because now you are disappointed from all of this, i know because i was in the same situation with the same thoughts, once you finish it you will start enjoying it again. The fact you have touched it from stock i have regretted as well by doing the same because i cannot use it as a daily driver anymore as it was but once i take it out and step on it and those 900hp come alive and i hear the screamer pipe and the rev hits 9000rpm i forget everything trust me. You will be like this though only when you sort it out.
This is what I keep telling myself brother.

That’s why I’m going to fight this negative situation and turn it into a positive.

Thank you for your advice and support as it means a lot.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,249 Posts
Don't lose faith GTRNick, I have been building my car myself as I couldn't afford for someone to do the manifold gasket for me (turns out is was a turbo gasket anyway, lol) - the money I saved I have upgraded my turbos, bought a new plenum, and many other refurb parts for the car. I got stuck getting the turbos out, stuck getting the manifolds off, stuck getting the turbos and manifolds back in again... There were times I was so angry and disillusioned with the car I wanted to sell it or set fire to it... I walked away, came back and managed to do the bits I was stuck on, I'm now getting closer to putting the car back together again and finally enjoy it! (Providing she starts and I haven't ****ed anything up!)

It is different to your situation having spent a lot of money, but the awful feeling in the pit of your stomach is the same. I don't know who you used, but I hope a resolution can be found and you get your car back to running as it should. :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Don't lose faith GTRNick, I have been building my car myself as I couldn't afford for someone to do the manifold gasket for me (turns out is was a turbo gasket anyway, lol) - the money I saved I have upgraded my turbos, bought a new plenum, and many other refurb parts for the car. I got stuck getting the turbos out, stuck getting the manifolds off, stuck getting the turbos and manifolds back in again... There were times I was so angry and disillusioned with the car I wanted to sell it or set fire to it... I walked away, came back and managed to do the bits I was stuck on, I'm now getting closer to putting the car back together again and finally enjoy it! (Providing she starts and I haven't ****ed anything up!)

It is different to your situation having spent a lot of money, but the awful feeling in the pit of your stomach is the same. I don't know who you used, but I hope a resolution can be found and you get your car back to running as it should. :thumbsup:

Thank you for your support.

Don’t worry I am in the process of dealing with it now.

It’s in good hands and although it will cost me more money thats fine as long as it’s with the right people now.

First lets see the extent of the damage and then lets see what happens after that :thumbsup:

It’s just been a very painful 3 years to be honest of me complaining and no real care from the previous company and like I said they will have their comeuppance don’t you worry.

Also to the people always wondering why I built my car and never turned up to anything this is the reason. :chuckle:

I felt like a dickhead in all honesty.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,245 Posts
It’s in good hands and although it will cost me more money thats fine as long as it’s with the right people now.
just don't fall into the same trap. Treat whomever has it now with the scepticism you wish you'd reserved for the previous tuner. That way you won't be blinded by the dream.

I hope it all works out
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
just don't fall into the same trap. Treat whomever has it now with the scepticism you wish you'd reserved for the previous tuner. That way you won't be blinded by the dream.

I hope it all works out
Will do Mook thank you for understanding me too :)
 
21 - 40 of 77 Posts
Top